1. #19861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    That's two questions and you didn't even ask them from me but I'll answer to them

    First question: the difficulty is roughly the same, but adding more players adds complexity, risk and probability of failure thus making it harder. For individual player 5 mans and raids are just as easy/hard. But when you add that single player experience x 20 or x 40, someone or some people will fuck up and cause the system to collapse.
    I agree that with more people the difficulty increases with the number of people and the quality of the rewards should reflect that. But in all MMOs I have played so far that wasn't the only factor that made raids more difficult. The complexity and number of mechanics, the requirements in terms of dps, hps, cooldown usage etc. were always much higher in raids then in dungeons or single player content. I would even argue that they could make the individual requirements a little bit higher in smaller group or single player content to offset the difficulty that comes with the coordination and logistics requirements of raids.

    Second question: Why shouldn't they? Has someone claimed that there shouldn't be difficult single player content?
    As of now when it comes to Wildstar so far for non-raiders in terms of PVE I have seen dailies, 5 men dungeons, shiphands and adventures, which all seems to be just a stepping stone to eventually get to raids and not an alternative long term progression path for non-raiders. I hope I'm wrong and they offer some kind of meaningful progression for someone like myself who isn't interested in raiding atm, but until I see it Carbine won't get my money. That's unfortunate because there are many things I like about Wildstar, but everything I hear and see tells me it is a game that doesn't cater to me at all.
    Last edited by mmoc3e45b10508; 2014-04-15 at 02:10 PM.

  2. #19862
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Ugh... Tried dl'ing it again. Failed after Failed after Failed. Seriously, I think my PC hates this game.

    Run as Administrator and it won't fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senkyen View Post
    Just one question for you. Why should raids have a difficulty level so high that you need a premade well coordinated group to complete them, while it is OK for dungeons to be easy enough that a random group of strangers from LFG can tackle them?
    Because dungeons aren't meant to be a multi-hour time investment. Raids are.

  3. #19863
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neos300 View Post
    Because dungeons aren't means to be a multi-hour time investment. Raids are.
    Says who? They used to be. I also don't see how a time requirement is any basis for difficulty. Time =/= challenging gameplay.
    BAD WOLF

  4. #19864
    The Lightbringer Primernova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senkyen View Post
    Just one question for you. Why should raids have a difficulty level so high that you need a premade well coordinated group to complete them, while it is OK for dungeons to be easy enough that a random group of strangers from LFG can tackle them?

    Why shouldn't people who prefer small scale dungeons or open world events or single player instances have difficult content that lasts for months?
    Dungeons are fine on a small scale. Those players, that complete those dungeons, join with others of like minds and attempt raids.

    How far they get, is up to them, not a contrivance like a raid queue with no challenge and then quit or troll the rest of the player base.

  5. #19865
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Pretty much all MMO design has failed to provide it, so I'd say it's been pretty clear that it wasn't a priority. Believe it or not, WoW provided more of this in MoP than any game I've played so far...it just wasn't a means of progression, so it was still ultimately less engaging as other content. It was a great start though. Brawler's Guild was A++ in terms of awesomeness, challenge, and a very good concept.
    Brawler's guild was a joke for a shaman Bloodlust+pop'dem'CDs. Total faceroll
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  6. #19866
    Quote Originally Posted by Tidezen View Post
    I feel this is going to be the MMO 3.0 category, when someone finally picks up on the fact that most players don't want to be forced into massive groups just to get anything done in the game. The stats have been there for awhile now, it's a huge, untapped audience...they just need to start creating content for it.
    I would not want to play that game, because its failing completly the mmo design. What you want is a single player game with the same level of loot as when 40 people stick together and defeat some badass. But nobody would do the 20/40 content when you could get the same rewards playing solo. I'm interested in groupcombat, from 5-xxx people working together and reaching something that wouldnt be possible trying it alone. Thus I would never touch a product where someone playing alone reach the same goals as when xx people are working together...

    However, the devs told at PAX that they are aware of that 60% of the playerbase of MMOs are playing solo and mostly not taking on any group content. And they respect that and want to adress content to them, too! Thus I think we will see some developement regarding W*. But I dont know which excactly...

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  7. #19867
    If you think the hardcore raider community is going to be happy with people getting comparable end game gear in 5 man dungeons or solo content then you're nutso. The elitist raider believes they should be the only ones entitled to special gear and recognition to the point that they poop their pants when they see someone in the same armor of a different color with crappier stats on it. (Mind you I said elitist raider and not elite raider.)

    Yes yes, wildstar raid gear is supposed to be really awesome for raiding and 5 man gear is supposed to be awesome for 5 mans, best of raid gear and best of 5 man gear are different and not useful in the other activity but I can assure you the Star-bellied sneeches will form a pooping party if they get a wiff of anyone getting great stuff out of anything but raiding. It's the elitist nature.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2014-04-15 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #19868
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If you think the hardcore raider community is going to be happy with people getting comparable end game gear in 5 man dungeons or solo content then you're nutso. The elitist raider believes they should be the only ones entitled to special gear and recognition to the point that they poop their pants when they see someone in the same armor of a different color with crappier stats on it. (Mind you I said elitist raider and not elite raider.)

    Yes yes, wildstar raid gear is supposed to be really awesome for raiding and 5 man gear is supposed to be awesome for 5 mans, best of raid gear and best of 5 man gear are different and not useful in the other activity but I can assure you the Star-bellied sneeches will form a pooping party if they get a wiff of anyone getting great stuff out of anything but raiding. It's the elitist nature.
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand /care?
    The people you are talking about are 0.01% of an MMO population. It goes without saying that nobody will care if they quit the game.

  9. #19869
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    You'll easily spend an hour in a veteran dungeon, if you haven't given up after an hour. They are challenging enough if we consider the gear levels you're suppose to enter them in. They'll require quite a bit of coordination on some fronts and it makes me wonder how many people will actually use the queue system and not enter them with pre-mades.


    Those who believe rewards structures are made to cater a certain audience and not to reward a certain challenge are simply too bitter and narrow minded.
    Last edited by Acidbaron; 2014-04-15 at 03:43 PM.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
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  10. #19870
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand /care?
    The people you are talking about are 0.01% of an MMO population. It goes without saying that nobody will care if they quit the game.
    For being .01% of the community they sure do show up a lot in oqueue parties and posting on forums about purples dropping like rain. You sure you didn't just pull a number out of your ass and blow it across the room with a kiss?

  11. #19871
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    For being .01% of the community they sure do show up a lot in oqueue parties and posting on forums about purples dropping like rain. You sure you didn't just pull a number out of your ass and blow it across the room with a kiss?
    While I am not going to debate exact number because really no one has exact numbers on it, one thing to keep in mind is the "hardcore" players might seem like a larger % of the population then they are because they are more likely than more casual people to go to forums and post things.

    I personally don't have an issue with different level gear coming from doing different activities. But then I don't really care what someone else is able to get because it doesn't really affect me. I do things which I find fun in games, not to obtain the most leet gears. I mean they are a nice byproduct of some fun things (for me) but they are not the point. I think I am in the minority with that opinion though.

    Anywho if anyone is interested I wrote words about some of the Elder Game things from this weekend.
    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/games/wild...ar-elder-game/

    Oh, also a cool thing they had going on at their booth was four people would team up with a dev and take on an open world boss. Part of it was hilarious because the dev auto killed mobs on the way to the boss (because there were so many people waiting to participate) but the fights were also interesting. There was a lot of dying, but everyone seemed to be having a great time.

  12. #19872
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    For being .01% of the community they sure do show up a lot in oqueue parties and posting on forums about purples dropping like rain. You sure you didn't just pull a number out of your ass and blow it across the room with a kiss?
    Ok then just see wow numbers, if you didn't kill garrosh hc you aren't an elitist.

    H: Garrosh Hellscream 811 (2.43%)

    8 months since SoO was released.

  13. #19873
    Epic! Pejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post

    Those who believe rewards structures are made to cater a certain audience and not to reward a certain challenge are simply too bitter and narrow minded.
    Not that I actually have an issue with it, but this is exactly what Carbine is doing and they have stated it. They want to reward specific audiences, and have imposed the challenge level around it. They WANTED the 1% to get the best gear so they put it behind the least accessible content, 40 mans. They could have made 20 mans the most difficult, but decided that they were second class to 40 mans. They could have made veteran dungeons/adventures the most challenging but decided that they would only be stepping stones. From other games, we have seen incredible challenging solo content but they decided to not invest in this content and reward a specific audience. That is EXACTLY what they did. Saying that though, Wildstar needs to keep at this but offer alternatives as well. Said alternatives do not need to give the best gear but there does need to be a sort of progression (which they've stated they are doing).

    Most importantly though - if Carbine is happy with their design philosophies, they need to stick to it and accept the benefits/consequences that come with it. People are purchasing this game for the design philosophy they have now. This does not mean they shouldn't offer alternatives but changing their philosophy on raiding, difficulty of leveling and instanced content should not be done.

  14. #19874
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    *snip*
    Didn't read your article yet, but had to take a screenshot of the page. I think you will figure rather quickly what I found funny


    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  15. #19875
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    While I am not going to debate exact number because really no one has exact numbers on it, one thing to keep in mind is the "hardcore" players might seem like a larger % of the population then they are because they are more likely than more casual people to go to forums and post things.

    I personally don't have an issue with different level gear coming from doing different activities. But then I don't really care what someone else is able to get because it doesn't really affect me. I do things which I find fun in games, not to obtain the most leet gears. I mean they are a nice byproduct of some fun things (for me) but they are not the point. I think I am in the minority with that opinion though.

    Anywho if anyone is interested I wrote words about some of the Elder Game things from this weekend.
    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/games/wild...ar-elder-game/

    Oh, also a cool thing they had going on at their booth was four people would team up with a dev and take on an open world boss. Part of it was hilarious because the dev auto killed mobs on the way to the boss (because there were so many people waiting to participate) but the fights were also interesting. There was a lot of dying, but everyone seemed to be having a great time.
    Nice write up!

    You are not an elitist, personally I would like to run the ideal that being elitist is something to aspire to right out of our gaming culture. Far too often elitists are held up as something to aspire to, usually by people who have no clue what the difference between being an elite player and an elitist player is. The elite are the best at an activity, and the elitists believe they deserve special recognition and favoritism because of a percieved sense of superiority. To an Elitist being an ass hat to others seems to be their preferred method of getting recognition, if you're not flying your ass flag proudly then you're not getting recognized for your skill but being a jerk to everyone doesn't actually make your dps better or your gaming skills sharper.

    If you can get anything worthwhile outside their perferred difficulty setting it's a hand out and if it is something worth getting to raid that is something they feel they are required to grind through. They may be a small portion of the game but they are a loud portion of the game. For the elite the gear they get in raids is a means to an ends, to the elitist its the proof that they are awesome sauce and having great gear outside of raiding is just going to cause them to explode.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2014-04-15 at 05:16 PM.

  16. #19876
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    While I am not going to debate exact number because really no one has exact numbers on it, one thing to keep in mind is the "hardcore" players might seem like a larger % of the population then they are because they are more likely than more casual people to go to forums and post things.

    I personally don't have an issue with different level gear coming from doing different activities. But then I don't really care what someone else is able to get because it doesn't really affect me. I do things which I find fun in games, not to obtain the most leet gears. I mean they are a nice byproduct of some fun things (for me) but they are not the point. I think I am in the minority with that opinion though.

    Anywho if anyone is interested I wrote words about some of the Elder Game things from this weekend.
    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/games/wild...ar-elder-game/

    Oh, also a cool thing they had going on at their booth was four people would team up with a dev and take on an open world boss. Part of it was hilarious because the dev auto killed mobs on the way to the boss (because there were so many people waiting to participate) but the fights were also interesting. There was a lot of dying, but everyone seemed to be having a great time.
    Only negative things I have to say about the article is I'm pretty sure it's spelled "Imbuements" but I could be wrong. ..and it's not an 80-man raid...it's a 40-man raid with two bosses at the same time.
    Other than that, nicely written article!

  17. #19877
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Didn't read your article yet, but had to take a screenshot of the page. I think you will figure rather quickly what I found funny
    I can't see imgur at work sadly

    Quote Originally Posted by Xayon View Post
    Only negative things I have to say about the article is I'm pretty sure it's spelled "Imbuements" but I could be wrong. ..and it's not an 80-man raid...it's a 40-man raid with two bosses at the same time.
    Other than that, nicely written article!
    And dash it all! That is correct... I blame after PAX brain drain >< Thanks

  18. #19878
    I am Murloc! Sy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    900 of those pages are the same 3 people talking about the same things all the time.
    whaaaat? nooooooo


    bunnycatgirls ftw ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Didn't read your article yet, but had to take a screenshot of the page. I think you will figure rather quickly what I found funny
    "hot on gamebreaker" indeed..

  19. #19879
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I can assure you the Star-bellied sneeches will form a pooping party
    I would just like to say I appreciate your use of the Sneeches. This is how I've always talked about people who whine about what other people are wearing as gear.

    @Arlee article: I really like everything we've been hearing from Carbine recently. I hope that base population stuff is actually for real, because exciting trash is something I look forward to. Though, I'm a little "meh" about the imbuement stuff. If I ever got a weapon from 40s (lol) I wouldn't be really thrilled about having them make it the best weapon for me for like 3 major patches. I like to see new things, too. >.<
    Pokemon FC: 5112-3501-2407 Trainer: Oli FS: Viscoe - Farfetch'd/Hoothoot/Rufflet - Currently Full, DO NOT ADD
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  20. #19880
    Quote Originally Posted by Sy View Post

    "hot on gamebreaker" indeed..
    I like Arlee's articles there, sadly there are hardly any editorials and information articles there anymore. It's mostly a clickbait site nowadays.

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