This is a very welcome change, in my opinion. I have a DK tank alt sitting at 85 who I've more or less given up on partly due to the fact that I can't run 5-mans without losing threat to good-geared DPS players.Also, it will feel a lot more rewarding playing DPS after this change simply because you can actually play to your full potential without having to worry about threat. There's nothing more frustrating than feeling that you can't do as much damage as possible simply because you have to watch your threat.
Hilarious how you terrible people are complaining.
First of all it's nearly unheard in raids for tanks to lose aggro over DPS with threat boosts(MDs) and a wide array of threat dump abilities. Sure it's great that threat is less of an issue now but this is mostly aimed at either tanks that are less geared than the damage dealers and clearly more in the LFD where being a fresh tank hurts. Going in a HC with a tank in more blues than you can name ém and being a heroic lvl geared dpsers or with others of the same level of gear that constantly pull threat and visit the graveyard is never fun. Sure u can slow down, take it easy, go afk but again that's even less fun. So in the end it doesn't affect the raiding community and it just offers a bit of help for (fresh) tanks in LFD. Sounds good.
This may increase the population of tanks, I welcome the change in hopes it gathers more tanks for quicker RDF times.
This will actually affect raids more than random heroics, since Tanks' survivalbility is not really an issue in random heroics. And all tanks will need to work harder on their cooldowns and ressource management for survival, and have more controls over it, like today's DK tanking style.
Threat level change is just the 1st step towards this long-term goal.
I read up to this post and just had to comment on some of the things attempted to be used to defend this change...
(anyone calling bs on the tps can go find out what a full agil geared druid tank can push when actually using more than 1 button/min, also have a less geared dk that I went with up until 4.2 before the druid so it isn't a question of "dps rotation as a tank")
I just feel this is so braindead dps can go "MOAR NUMBARS NOWS!!" with even more of both tanks and dps not having a fucking clue wtf most of their abilities do.
Managing my survival was never an issue with the DK, swapped because DK AoE threat is just plain bursty and uninvolved (30sec cd on the only actually useful ability).
Tanking never really was hard to begin with. I remember a little hic up when the cata patch hit and TC was (is) a wet noodle that I had to adjust usage (love blood and thunder). +40k shield slam crits w/ T12 2p is going to be so OP for threat.
Last edited by ReaverGX; 2011-08-17 at 02:10 AM.
I can't wrap my head around the complaints...
1. The game/tanking is easy. This makes it faceroll.
A. Actually, content dictates difficulty. If you saw threat management as a challenge you had to "overcome", you're not the quality player you want us all to think you are.
2. Devs are wasting their time on changes that affect of the population instead of , where changes are really needed.
A. How did you get such inside information in an industry where techniques behind the design are generally kept under wraps? Oh, you don't know, you're just speculating? Cool.
Overall, this change helps the intended audience and does nothing to those outside of it. Hell, maybe they'll even be able to squeak a little more survival out of the change, even if it's just an extra GCD or two.
There's no reason to complain about this. Threat is a minimal factor in ideal situations, and a strong point of frustration in others. Evening it out without impacting either side negatively is what you SHOULD be asking for in design changes.
---------- Post added 2011-08-17 at 01:16 AM ----------
In no part of your long, drawn out "HEY LOOK AT ME I KNOW HOW TO PLAY" argument did you pose a single point against the change. The reason is because it won't affect you. So shhhhh.
Last edited by Prag; 2011-08-17 at 01:17 AM.
Also why are you trying to impose a barrier for entry on other tanks if this wont affect you because since it is easy already, it must not be challenging to you, so neither way change or not wont affect you, only others. Why are you for blocking others from benefiting?
Also this state is likely to be temporary, tanking will never be an "AFK" role with these changes, or maybe not even "easy".
In fact tanking can be a lot like DPS, something you can perfect and maximize. What does all that extra threat do for you exactly? Nothing.
What does milking every inch of extra mitigation based on smart use of skills (timing and rotation) do for you? It saves the healing needed for you, your survival (even w/o heals) and allows you to impact your entire raid by allow healing to spare more heals on themselves and DPS players.
Regardless if it is easy or hard, there is a more meaningful way to progress your skills as a tank on the long term of things.
Besides my point here, I think to need to read the whole blue post of their intentions, and you will see they already stated against what you are arguing, making it nearly pointless to argue, unless you are flat out going "Blizzard is lying" if you can't trust Blizzard here why would you trust them other times? Or even play the game if its the same devs making it that keep you here.
Last edited by jayremy; 2011-08-17 at 01:36 AM.
We've established that currently keeping threat is p1ss easy, it's also been repeatedly said in the blue post and in this thread that this is why they are moving away from trying to make threat a challenge, and instead make staying alive a challenge. This is good.
Last edited by Calamari; 2011-08-17 at 01:48 AM.
Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU
I welcome this change. Its a p.i.t.a. in LFD groups when i pull 2-3 mobs in ZG/ZA and have my DPS pick one mob each and focus fire from the outset.
the blue post talks about green geared tanks in a random hc.. which is irrelevant.. lets talk endgame.The old system of threat was tank gear-limited in terms of a dps pulling aggro away, as a geared tank can hold aggro better in FL.However the old tier raids of BWD etc, the bosses hit for less, meaning less vengeance, meaning less threat, making that FL-geared dps rip aggro easily. The solution? Make tanks choose hit/exp? How about keep the old system, and add an avoidance-based element on top, where avoiding an attack generates significant threat, to the level where dps cannot out-threat after a few dodge/parry. Sure you dont want tanks afk and do 0 dps, but what actual sense if you think about it, is in a tank hitting? Isnt a tank about taking being hit? hit/exp should be a dps and pvp stat!
and about pvp (rated bgs), I guess it might actually be a buff? someone work it out, but I would think hitting a CC'd target (fear/rep etc) as tank spec will now reward instant Vengeance (read: dps boost), then when the target breaks CC and hit you, you will gain even more. This is as opposed to currently starting with no vengeance on a CC target until they break out.
Last edited by rockdontroll; 2011-08-17 at 01:44 AM.
Last edited by Calamari; 2011-08-17 at 01:47 AM.
Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU
Update(?): Seems the hotfix has just been deployed. Go now; tank, faceroll, and be merry! ¬_¬ (and whine in trade, for some of you..?)
This is outstanding news. Threat generation has never been a proper representation of skill, but merely a pointless gear issue.Putting more weight of surviving in the hands of the player is definitely the right move. Death Knights, for me, have been the most enjoyable tanking class by far because of this. Watching your health bar to decide when to DS for the best benefit is far more engaging than Savage Defense, and really enjoyable.
The only time threat actually mattered was when playing with idiot players (so pretty much every DPS in LFD) or if you were severely outgeared. I've also heard it was problematic in progression fights, too. So, as a person who does tank, doesn't raid, and uses LFD pretty much exclusively, this will do very little for me. If you blow all your CDs before I get a Swipe off, you should die. (And, in fact, you're STILL going to die, even after this change, because I'm going to stand there and auto-attack while they swarm your dumbass, then I'll go back to tanking for the rest of the non-retards.) If you play like an idiot, you should be punished for it. STOP REWARDING BAD GAMEPLAY.
Also, don't many DK tanks actively dislike having to use DS at the exclusion if nearly everything else? Having active mitigation is fine and dandy, but when it becomes a, "USE X ABILITY OR GET GIBBED" situation, is that really adding more thought to the process, or just making tanking that much more punishing in a more overt way? I hope Blizzard realizes that for every player they win back to the LFD (the ONLY they're doing this, mark my words) with this change, they're going to lose that many and more when they have this whole "DK-like revamp" of the other tank classes go live. Why? Because DK TANKING SUCKS. And this is coming from somebody who enjoys DK tanking's versatile and 'mobile' nature.