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  1. #281
    Invisible, vanish and feign death exist so mages, rogues and hunters don't have to pay repairs. Shame on you if you think they should be used for anything else. Letting people in your group die because they rip threat isn't ever an alternative for me. I don't have time to 'teach people a lesson' because they can't tell a skull from a star. I actually don't like the fact that people won't be able to rip threat. It was slightly challenging having to use taunt for something other than tank swaps. Intervene now becomes a tool for warriors to get charge in for more rage instead of a tool to save someone's ass? Mayhaps blizz has something really interesting planned for future raid or instance bosses to keep tanks busy, but otherwise I don't understand it...

  2. #282
    The Patient Crashik's Avatar
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    Fixing Tank Threat .. Dear lord, We have had Warriors gettig world 1st rank on Shannox HC doing insane amounts of dmg, while the tank is kiting and holding threat at the same time .. and now theyre buffing tank threat? wtf .. Did you forget about Misdirect and Tricks blizzard?

  3. #283
    Herald of the Titans Sephiracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    If you read GC's post carefully, you will see the long-term goal is to shift tanks' focus from threat management to survival management.
    I recall just prior to cataclysm a long term goal for threat was for threat to matter and to decay if you slacked on keeping threat.
    LoL: Kr1sys
    WoW:'06 - '11 '14-?' : Krisys - Blood/Frost DK | Sephiracle - Arms/Prot Warrior | Sephyx - Shadow/Disc Priest | Petergriffin - Huntard


  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Fillerbunny View Post
    So its pretty much one aoe spam fest from now on. Thnx bliz, making my rotations peachy.
    Not AoEing dungeons had absolutely nothing to do with tank threat and everything to do with lack of Healer Throughput.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiracle View Post
    I recall just prior to cataclysm a long term goal for threat was for threat to matter and to decay if you slacked on keeping threat.
    Yeah, I remember those aims too. Yet I think that the mitigation mini-game is more suited for tanks than, for example, threat mini-game. Or even better, I'd like to have 'em both! (check for example warden class from LOTRO..)

  6. #286
    The more I think about this, maybe I like it after all (even though my initial reaction was extremely negative). You will still be mashing mitigation buttons without having to worry so much about keeping threat. When I rolled a tank I enjoyed it but I also found it very stressful. Now it sounds a little less taxing without being easy. It does make me want to play my warrior again and try tanking again. It's been interesting to consider other peoples comments, especially long-time tanks who approve. But I do appreciate the diversity of all opinions.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by destero1 View Post
    Yeah, I remember those aims too. Yet I think that the mitigation mini-game is more suited for tanks than, for example, threat mini-game. Or even better, I'd like to have 'em both! (check for example warden class from LOTRO..)
    If the mitigation mini-game is what is the ultimate goal, then they're doing a piss poor job at it because the only tank that was modeled that way is Death Knights and they are unquestionably the worst tank in the end game with absolutely no fix in sight.

    So basically, with nothing on the table to fix this awful mitigation mini-game, they decided to that they would make every tank modeled that way?

  8. #288
    Field Marshal Cudy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etou View Post
    Exactly. If you look at how tanks gem/reforge/enchant anyway, this is what tanks really worry about. They don't want to worry about threat, they want just enough, or for DPS to cool it. Tanks can't get enough damage reduction, and Blizz is just tuning the game to how we actually want to play.
    I gear for just enough survivability then focus on damage. I'm probably an edge case, but I think the world would be a better place if more tanks were more like me.

    I mean really, that 1% avoidance you give up for 8% hit is more than made up for by tclap and demo shout not missing, and the boss dying that much faster.

  9. #289
    Damn it would be cool if they would make patch 4.3 realy stand out from other patches.. like introduce shitload of things ppl maybe dont even expect.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    It made people pay attention to what they were doing. It's just another example in the long line of Blizzard dumbing down WoW to the lowest common denominator. After the first 30 seconds of a fight there's nobody within half of my threat and my guild's DPS all hover between 25-28K. It's just a completely unnecessary change that makes the game more boring for people who weren't bad in exchange for making it easier for people who get a headache trying to think about more than one thing at a time.
    let me make sure I understand you here.

    after the first 30 seconds of a fight there is nobody within half of your threat.

    How does this change affect you? or make the game more boring for you?

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-17 at 07:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melonhead View Post
    I'm glad you can play with the big boys now too.

    Just wondering... what did you think your role was before? And why were you losing focus on it?

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-16 at 10:04 PM ----------

    And good tanks will be bored to tears and stop tanking so that ultimately there will be fewer tanks. Engaging and rewarding (you get something when you succeed) gameplay is what players want.
    I thought good tanks already didn't have a threat problem... this changes what again for the good tanks?

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiracle View Post
    That comment successfully nullified any point you may have had in your rambling post. Giving all tank specs a 3-5x threat boost does nothing for those that can manage their tools effectively and only hand holds the bad players. We all know what happened to DK's when the Icy Touch change went live and this is effectively the same thing for all of them.

    I can see this change be beneficial if they make other tank classes have active mitigation, but there's been nothing but speculation on that front since the beginning of us discussing the problems that DK tanks have.
    I was referring to the "fun and exciting content" line, not the crap about threat gen. Way to completely miss that. And my post was well-spaced and punctuated. Can't make an accurate assessment of the quality of new content if you haven't done it.

    The DK's Icy Touch thing was an issue at the time because Blizzard wanted threat to matter AT THE TIME. They made a decision to buff ONE ability, which DK's began spamming because it was the most effective way to generate threat. That is night and day different than what they're doing here.

    And if Blizzard specifically states they want to shift the focus of tanking to active mitigation from threat generation, there's nothing to really speculate except exactly what those changes will be. It WILL happen, just have to wait and see when and what changes they make.

    -Judge

  12. #292
    There are several different good/not-so-good points about this new change. 1st off it seems like a bit unnecessary to make a change this big when they could have just given Warriors, Dk's, and maybe druids a threat drop. "Ventriloquist Shout: The warrior throws his voice and drops some damn threat."

    On the other hand, I don't know how much of you people QQing about how tanking was already sooooooo easy has actually done the new Firelands stuff: on herioc...but it's definitely the most challenging/innovative content they have had in the last several years. The idea of generating rage on a prot warrior to increase mitigation sounds like a damn good idea to me. Not as "press 1 button or die" like a Blood Dk, but definitely something that helps separate the good players from the bad ones.

    I like the idea of cd management and actual tank rotations. Prior to this in end-game heroic content it was be the best tank on server or die horribly every fight. Balancing the need for threat AND mitigation definitely needed to happen and hopefully the changes at high-end progression won't be effected tremendously.

    Of course the idea of not spending 2 hours in a ZG or ZA is very appealing. More of a "how well can you mitigate the incoming damage" and not so much "you better hold threat on the 25 mobs or the whole group dies instantly." This makes the learning curve (which is what dungeons are partially made for ---- and of course some upgrades) less sharp. It's a min/maxing of mitigation to make it easier on healers instead of a "press all your buttons at the right time while doing 10 other things." The idea of how good at mitigation to help your healer which helps the entire group (mana management, cds, cast times on who taking a lot of damage) will make experiences much more enjoyable in my opinion.

    In reality none of us can make accurate assumptions until it has been well tested and everyone has experienced it for themselves on multiple levels (LFG, raid, pug, etc).
    Last edited by eliteranger; 2011-08-18 at 12:02 PM.

  13. #293
    Stood in the Fire Fur Play's Avatar
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    Erm, all you people who are saying threat was fine before. Let's be honest, it wasn't. Vengeance is a stupid mechanic, especially on taunt swaps when the original tank has a shedload of threat and the new taunting tank has none cause he hasn't been bashed in the face by the boss for X amount of time.

    Arcane Mages, or any other class that can do insane burst will rip a boss/mob off a tank immediately if Vengeance hasn't stacked to a suitable level to maintain threat.

    Stop QQing that this change wasn't needed, it was. Mobs and bosses are supposed to be hitting the tank, plain and simple. If Blizzard want to implement a change to make sure this is always the case, then good, it's about time.

    Most DPS I have ever come across do not give a s**t about threat, they just have Recount/Skada the size of their screen and plough through their rotation regardless, then have the audacity to blame the tank for not holding aggro.

    This change is because of DPS bads, not tanking bads. Most DPS players think they're elite because of the numbers they pump, however if the target is attacking them, they can take 50% or all of the blame for not watching their aggro. I'm not saying there's no bad tanks, but I am saying there are a LOT of bad DPS who just don't care and will happily blame the tank/healer, then ragequit thinking they're awesome.

    Good job Blizzard, this change was certainly needed and I completely favour tanks having a survival rotation in the future rather than worrying about what the retarded Arcane Mage is attacking. Tanks should be worrying about staying alive, and in return, keeping the group alive, because generally that's a tanks job anyway, regardless of the mechanic in place with threat. Mindless DPS just makes tanking harder for tanks, hopefully now that problem will disappear.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebonj View Post
    Erm, all you people who are saying threat was fine before. Let's be honest, it wasn't.
    Yes, it was.

    Why are we trying to balance things around the lowest common denominator and 5 man faceroll pointless content? A 5 man is an inconvenience, it shouldn't be the measuring stick by which all things should be balanced around. Unfortunately, apparently this is what it is being balanced around and dumbed down for morons who can't figure out what the hit cap is or that hunters don't use expertise and still try to dual wield tank as a Death Knight and then complain that threat is a problem.

    Then these droolcuppers have the audacity to blame PvPers and hardcore raiders for ruining the game.

    These people will still be idiots even if you gave them a 1000% threat modifier because now they won't be able to figure out when to press their shield block button which is what makes makes Blood DK tanks so difficult and unfun. But don't worry, apparently, this is the better model.

  15. #295
    Stood in the Fire Fur Play's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keLston View Post
    Yes, it was.
    Mate, you are talking out of your @rse.

    Of course there will still be bad tanks, I did say that, I'm just saying this will help level out a problem that MIGHT be the reason there are so few tanks in the dungeon finder.

    It's not gonna make a difference to raiders because tanks will always have top threat on the boss anyway, 5 mans are the problem and I think this is why this change is being implemented. If you're gonna have a random tool like that, there needs to be a level playing field where the tank doesn't feel disabled due to trigger happy dps who just wanna pewpewpew through an instance as fast as possible. I've said it to people before, most dps just see tanks in the LFD tool as their ticket into an instance, as soon as they're inside, the tank is irrelevant, they will just be morons.

    Some of us like to play the game, and dungeons, how they're intended to be played. If I want to run through something as fast possible, I'll play Sonic the Hedgehog.

    I play a healer main spec, but I do like to tank on the side. It's not a L2P issue, threat has sucked for a long time. Burst dps classes are a nightmare.
    Last edited by Fur Play; 2011-08-18 at 09:48 PM.

  16. #296
    Having tanked in WoW since vanilla... am a concerned player.First impression: "I, as a tank, WANT to be concerned about my threat. Why do they keep on insisting on making the game easier?! It is exactly what I hated about WotLK!"But, after some thought, and reading Ghostcrawler's blog again, I decided to calm down and wait to see what it turns out to be like. I may end up hating it, I may end up loving it, but I won't know until I try.

  17. #297
    They should hotfix movement trough walls cause obstacles are not casual friendly.

  18. #298
    Field Marshal Seldirion's Avatar
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    I heard the patch 5.0 will introduce autopilot mode when you double-click a quest so you don't have to find the way yourself.
    Even better, if you have problems completing a quest and keep dying, you can automatically complete it with the press of a button.
    You only need to die three times first.
    The same thing will happen to difficult raid encounters. If you wipe more than three times, you will get help from NPCs.
    All you need to do is res, run back and buff up the raid while the NPCs down the boss.

    Why have challenging encounters when you can have casual and trivial instead?


    Last edited by Seldirion; 2011-08-19 at 07:46 PM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebonj View Post
    Mate, you are talking out of your @rse.

    Of course there will still be bad tanks, I did say that, I'm just saying this will help level out a problem that MIGHT be the reason there are so few tanks in the dungeon finder.
    Am I? A 5000% threat modifier isn't what makes people want to suddenly get back into the RDF as a tank. You're an absolute moron if you believe a threat modifier and moving to Blood DK button mashing is what makes people suddenly go HEY I WANNA RDF AS A TANK NAO.

    If you're a tank of any ability, you're in a guild. If you're in a guild, you have an at least 8 to 1 ratio of DPS to tank. Why would you queue solo as a tank with no guarantee of what random people you would get when you could just random with anyone in your guild? Because you might have a 0.1% chance to get a mount? Who gives a shit?

    Did you really just say you want to spend as long as possible in a 5 man dungeon that you've done 1000 times before for no reason? Why? Because there is cool roleplay in them? Right. That's some unadulterated bullshit.

  20. #300
    Ugh, I wrote a longer post but it lost all formatting so I'll just say this:
    A good change. Not the one I would have preferred as a tank but good nonetheless. People should stop caring how easy the game is for other people. Go kill ragnaros heroic and stop whining.

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