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  1. #1

    [MARKSMANSHIP]Legion Alpha Discussion

    Marksmanship discussion.

  2. #2
    So what exactly is there to be excited about with this spec in Legion?

    On live we have a set of abilities that, while overly simple, gives us high mobility and burst damage with 0 ramp-up time, making us perfect for zerging down add spawns and also giving us good single target DPS, although our AoE sucks due to Multi-Shot being undertuned. We had some RNG in the form of the Thrill of the Hunt talent.

    On Legion, while Sniper Training has no movement component, Aimed Shot is going from an instant cast (with the 4 set) to a 2 second cast time which doesn't allow us to move so we lose a ton of mobility after having near full mobility for so long. True aim gives us ramp-up time and ensures that we are glued to one target under penalty of losing +40% damage to Aimed Shot. The other talents are too weak to even bother with, especially after Steady Focus was nerfed. We lost TotH but in its place we have Lock and Load; on top of that we have Hunter's Mark which, unlikely the previous two, is a critical element of your rotation so we are truly at the mercy of its proc rate. We also lose Kill Shot, gaining instead a stacking crit buff from our artifact on <20% targets which isn't exactly as thrilling.

    The rotation isn't exactly more complex either. On live we use Chimaera Shot on cooldown, Steady Shot to gain focus, Aimed Shot to dump focus, Barrage for AoE/Power Shot on CD for single target and Kill Shot as an execute. On Alpha we use Arcane Shot to gain focus, Aimed Shot to dump focus, Marked Shot when Hunter's Mark procs which buffs Aimed Shot for a few seconds (there was a stacking component but it appears that Patient Sniper is currently by far the best option), and use Explosive Shot on cooldown. The only additional "complexity" I see is make sure you use Marked Shot once every 10 seconds for Marked for Death(which is really a test of Hunter's Mark RNG more than anything) and commit to one target for True Aim. Oh, and add a 1.5 sec GCD to make the whole thing feel slower because HASTE IS THE FUTURE!!!

    It feels like the only thing that is getting quantifiably better is our AoE, now that Multi-Shot generates focus and isn't otherwise worthless and we have Explosive Trap/Marked Shot cleave in addition to Barrage. Otherwise we lose mobility and actions-per-minute while we gain ramp-up times and RNG. In Azortharion's FinalBoss interview he said he enjoys the higher skill cap; I can agree with this, but I feel that BM managed to achieve a high skill cap in T17 while keeping its mobility, AoE, APM and target swapping.

    Over all, it feels Legion MM is adding more restrictions than anything. I keep hoping they will change their minds but the last 2 builds alone seem to show they are dedicated to MM's current stand-still "sniper" model. Here's hoping BM will eventually have something appealing to offer because while I didn't roll a hunter to stand still and tunnel against one target, I sure as hell didn't roll one to go melee.

  3. #3
    I still don't understand why the huge revamp to MM and BM. I would have wanted MM as it is today with HFC 4 set, BM as it was with BRF 4 set plus a further smallish change to more emphasize pets (perhaps have two pets out at once). Those specs were not broken. They were pretty fun and would be different enough from each other to make sense. We players could have continued to develop our skills and gotten better at hunting.

    Instead we start over. Blizzard has to put the effort into make the revamps work, and we players have to learn the specs from scratch and suffer thru as blizzard works out the bugs and balance issues.

    Was there some new Dev hired who wanted to 'make his mark' by overturning the whole hunter class, when it did not need it, and they could have simply refined and fine tuned instead and devoted their resources to other areas of the game that are actually broken?
    Last edited by silverstarzs; 2016-03-10 at 04:43 PM.

  4. #4
    MM DMG is fine on alpha it is even borderline op, not counting mage and shaman en, BUT it is pretty shitty due to the fact that we are a fucking buff jugglers. We have to stack buffs n procs on single target that last for 3sec and refresh it while dps -.-

  5. #5
    It's early alpha I would just wait because atm the buff jugling shit with this new gcd looks like massive poo

  6. #6
    We lose traps and killshot, yet get hunters mark back and have to play keep the debuff up /NotExcited
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskar000 View Post
    It's early alpha I would just wait because atm the buff jugling shit with this new gcd looks like massive poo
    It's actually quite late alpha, pretty sure we'll be getting big "world content" build soon 'nuff, marking end of big class changes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezorus View Post
    We lose traps and killshot
    Execute-like abilities are being removed as whole to go back to being warrior's special move.
    What sucks more imo is taking away Careful Aim (from baseline to talent) - this was part of MM idetity for quite a long time.

    Explosive trap was doing laughable damage anyway and I only used it during invasions to make NPCs enter combat so bodyguard/patrol follower would go for them.

  9. #9
    funny how everyone assumes this thread is just about PvE without the OP mentioning anything ^^
    imo we get too much ramp up time, but the result after finishing the ramp up is very strong.
    what i think is a pita is that we lose the option to keep our current pet with all its advantages and drawbacks.

  10. #10
    Blademaster
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    It started off very clunky in Alpha, but a lot of our feedback has been heavily taken on board (not all, alas). It now plays quite fluidly, and feels quite rewarding to play. My only major gripe i still have left they have already stated they will be addressing (increasing the duration on marked for death and true aim), and honestly even if there were no more changes after those two, I wouldnt be dissatisfied.
    I probably need to qualify that that is strictly from a PVE standpoint.

    I miss killshot, but in raids we get to spend that last 20% at 100% crit effectively, so at least you still get to close out strong and pump big numbers.

    Target switching isnt as bad with the patient sniper talent. You lose your true aim stacks etc, but you can pump out some heavy damage quite quickly when the encounter calls for it. Your preference will still be to sit on the boss if possible, but at least now when target switching is required, you're not so laughably useless that raidleaders would look to bench the entire class for the fight.

    I dont miss traps at all. Legitimately the only reason I have to be even a little bit disappointed is that they finally got an awesome animation, reminiscent of firing turtle shells in mario kart.

    The increase in GCD and Aimed cast time was not a nerf. Given the levels at which they have communicated you will get meaningful stats more quickly, these changes have made haste a meaningful stat. Lust/Heroism was always very lackluster for us compared to other classes, less so now. Lust + Trueshot is very nice in particular.
    Suddenly im not so sad that multistrike is gone, because having Haste, Mastery, Crit and Multistrike all being attractive would have melted my brain. Obviously we can't really know what stats are going to be BIS for stacking and to what levels until tuning is done, but as it stands - haste reducing your aimed shot cast times, sidewinder cooldown, and GCD is very nice, aimed shots critting with deadeye up is the stuff of wet dreams, and mastery is far more meaningful and rewarding now.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    funny how everyone assumes this thread is just about PvE without the OP mentioning anything ^^
    imo we get too much ramp up time, but the result after finishing the ramp up is very strong.
    what i think is a pita is that we lose the option to keep our current pet with all its advantages and drawbacks.
    It's not what everyone assumes, it's what most people are interested in.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahmeya View Post
    Execute-like abilities are being removed as whole to go back to being warrior's special move.
    What sucks more imo is taking away Careful Aim (from baseline to talent) - this was part of MM idetity for quite a long time.

    Explosive trap was doing laughable damage anyway and I only used it during invasions to make NPCs enter combat so bodyguard/patrol follower would go for them.
    Well not quite, since Warriors keeps their for beeing the "original users", and shadow priest also get to keep their for "what ever reason blizzard smooked that day reason".

    And glyped ExT was amazing in pvp and solo pve. You never used it for damage.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Well not quite, since Warriors keeps their for beeing the "original users", and shadow priest also get to keep their for "what ever reason blizzard smooked that day reason".

    And glyped ExT was amazing in pvp and solo pve. You never used it for damage.
    Considering it was created as damage ability...

    What troubles me is RoSac going away - each of the rare times I ever stepped into PvP (which solely means random BGs) I felt really squishy, and RoSac was the only defense against the riddiculous execute crits or derp freeze + ice lance spam burst. I hoped they would make Aspect of Deterrence *trollface* useable while stunned at least, but probably not going to happen.

    I wonder if Black Arrow/Dark Ranger (whatever it is called in latest build) will be good enough for levelling/soloing where you can't get any real benefit from True aim.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahmeya View Post
    Execute-like abilities are being removed as whole to go back to being warrior's special move.
    What sucks more imo is taking away Careful Aim (from baseline to talent) - this was part of MM idetity for quite a long time.

    Explosive trap was doing laughable damage anyway and I only used it during invasions to make NPCs enter combat so bodyguard/patrol follower would go for them.
    Losing KS but aren't we getting a reverse careful aim or something? Thought I saw in another thread one mob reaches 20% health we get almost gauranteed crits every attack or something. Did I misunderstand the post?

  15. #15
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Losing KS but aren't we getting a reverse careful aim or something? Thought I saw in another thread one mob reaches 20% health we get almost gauranteed crits every attack or something. Did I misunderstand the post?
    Artifact ability "Bullseye", stacking 3% crit buff, so after a short amount of time you'll get all the way up to 100%.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximitynz View Post
    Artifact ability "Bullseye", stacking 3% crit buff, so after a short amount of time you'll get all the way up to 100%.
    Thanks for the heads up. Depending on how long boss goes this could be bad or a load of crap. Sure it will be helpful for most tier end bosses though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Well not quite, since Warriors keeps their for beeing the "original users", and shadow priest also get to keep their for "what ever reason blizzard smooked that day reason".

    And glyped ExT was amazing in pvp and solo pve. You never used it for damage.
    Well, Warriors execute and Spriests Death, even rogues switching to backstab, all of these either enhance or change how the spec played (switching abilities out or giving orbs for faster ability usage or CBs faster for more finishers), and all hunters really got was an extra button. Granted it hit harder than other abilities, but hopefully with the new bullseye ability we don't really change anything but hit harder, like arcane mages back in Cata sub 20%.

  17. #17
    The Patient rossfraney's Avatar
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    PETS ARE BACK BOYS! hype

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by rossfraney View Post
    PETS ARE BACK BOYS! hype
    I like them for some elites/rares but outside that i prefer lone wolf, but still a good change.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rossfraney View Post
    PETS ARE BACK BOYS! hype
    captain?

    /10char



    EDIT:
    Hey Marksmanship Hunters. Here are a few changes that didn’t make it into today’s build, but we’re planning for a soon upcoming build:

    One of the most common points of feedback we’ve heard is that all of the specs are cool on their own, but none of them maintain the existing “Hunter + Ranged Weapon + Single Pet” archetype that people have grown attached to (Survival is now Melee, Marksmanship has lost its pet, and Beast Mastery has added a ton of additional pets).
    Marksmanship losing its pet has been one of the most impactful, but contentious changes we’ve made this expansion. We’re going to try returning the pet to Marksmanship, baseline, along with Lone Wolf as a level 15 talent (and very competitively tuned), so that this is a choice again.
    Exotic Munitions is being removed, and Black Arrow will be moving down to where it was, since the Lone Wolf + Black Arrow combination proved to be very popular and fun (the newest version of Black Arrow, where the minion reliably spawns and taunts the target, that is).


    Keep those in mind for feedback on this build! Thanks!
    source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742954788#2


    FOCKING YES! exactly what i was craving for
    Last edited by Flaim; 2016-03-17 at 07:45 PM.

  20. #20
    dont really see the point in making it a talent. why not just let people summon pets baseline and lose the LW buff while it's out?

    alternatively, why didn't they just replace black arrow with a pet talent?
    Last edited by threadz; 2016-03-17 at 07:47 PM.


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