1. #1
    Field Marshal Rigsby's Avatar
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    Hunter Optimization Questions - Challenge Modes

    About:
    To keep this forum simply put, there isn't a lot of information regarding what would be the best optimization for Warlords of Draenor Challenge Modes. I'd figure I'd throw this up here to attract the attention of some of the theorycrafters that lurk around here in order to get some help! Honestly no one really knows what would be the best optimization in the Challenge Mode scene, and it's just kinda of a clusterfuck.

    My major questions:
    1. What is the best secondary stat optimization for single target; for AoE target?
    2. What would be the best level 60 talent to use for single target?
    3. Is Multi-Shot dumping better than the usual rotation while keeping Beast Cleave up?

    Notes:
    • Doesn't matter what I do I'll never do as much damage as an Enhance Shaman in CMs.
    • I do negative damage outside of Bestial Wrath.
    • 5 stack Focus Fire with Stampede is god mode single target DPS - Probably the highest in Challenge Modes; Getting 5 Stacks before going into a boss fight can be satan.
    • Tertiary stats, tier sets, sockets, and legendary ring does not work in Challenge Modes.
    • All gear scales down to 630 Ilvl.
    • Mirror of the Blademaster is god mode.
    • Here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Rigsz/advanced

    Stats:
    Okay so according to Azortharion and Niix's outdated Beast Mastery guide secondary stat priority is Mastery > Multi > Haste > Versatility > Critical. As far as what us moronic top tier CM hunters run we use pieces with emphasized Mastery, then kinda just john fucking madden a mix of Crit/Haste. There is no reasoning behind it; Just kinda "Well I saw this guy" which turns to be "Well I saw this guy" and this chain continues indefinitely.

    Rotation Information:
    Single Target - Single Target rotation is the usual Beast Mastery rotation. Nothing outside of the Norm, hit things off CD, float Arcane and Cobra Shot in between things that need to be used off cooldown.

    AoE Environment - The challenge mode way has been seen as popping all your cooldowns, and complete multi-shot dump.

    Understanding the Fights:
    Bloodmaul Slag Mines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHhpyle_hZE
    Iron Docks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ily4vq85k
    Auchindoun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grs02GVHCic
    Skyreach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-R3kzz2xM
    Everbloom: No one does this god awful instance so we can just move along.
    Grimrail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XsBQ3nIQhg
    Shadowmoon Burial Grounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ntboUbFA
    Upper Blackrock Spire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XsBQ3nIQhg

    Those are some videos of some of the current/previous World best times; Give you an idea of what the fights/pulls are like.

    My current answers to my questions:
    1. What is the best secondary stat optimization for single target; for AoE target?
      A) I have no fucking idea; I get the heaviest mastery pieces I can find, then snag Crit/Mast pieces.

    2. What would be the best level 60 talent to use for single target?
      A) I'm usually going Marksmanship for single target situations but I'd use Steady Focus if I were; Some people use Thrill, and I don't know if anyone runs Dire Beast.

    3. Is Multi-Shot dumping better than the usual rotation while keeping Beast Cleave up?
      A) Multi-Shot dumping does a lot of damage when you pull like a bajillion mobs. If it's like 3 mobs, I follow the "raiding" way of AoE; just managing my Beast Cleave while continuing normal rotation.


    I know that these optimizations will not drastically effect my DPS; nor will I ever pull numbers relative to an enhance shaman, but I'm a man with a dream and OCD to maximize my character (An old raider's heart); So any help would be much obliged!

  2. #2
    you can't continue normal rotation and keep Beast Cleave up 100% of the time, so you don't have that choice available to you.

    In any cleave situation especially in CM's you'd prio Beast Cleave

  3. #3
    I always struggle trying to keep beast cleave up, is this just a playstyle issue with gear etc or us it actually impossible to keep it up perma for aoe? Using steady shot I struggle big time, using toth its a tad easier but. A mission

  4. #4
    1. For ur first question it mostly comes down to this: get pieces with as much mastery as possible, seeing your armory you have very decent gear. The only optimization i can suggest is getting the bow from LFR Mannoroth which has mastery crit in a 2/1 ratio. As for secondary stats, most people go with crit because it simply scales better than haste at low ilvls. The reason you would go haste is because it increases your pets focus regen which means more basic attacks which means more frenzy stacks.

    2. For single target the best talent would be dire beast since it benefits from mastery aswell, now depending on what dungeon and your pulls it can also be viable to go MM on certain bosses.

    3. You would want to try and keep up beast cleave as much as possible on big pulls. If u are pulling really big u can just spam multishot.

    As for ur everbloom comment: some asian teams have gotten really good times in everbloom but they havent released a video about it, seeing how its almost 1 minute faster than the best EU and US time they most likely oneshot some boss with soul cap.

    EDIT: I saw u are running blink strikes, this talent is utter thrash and u are probably better off using Crows or Stampede

  5. #5
    Blink Strikes works on Beast Cleave so its superior on AoE which is basicaly 90% of cms.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by eltonjuan View Post
    Blink Strikes works on Beast Cleave so its superior on AoE which is basicaly 90% of cms.
    Still does less dmg than crows in Cms

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FonskeHond View Post
    Still does less dmg than crows in Cms
    Any proof? I hardly doubt that pulling 10 mobs with blink strikes is worse than crows...

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Rigsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FonskeHond View Post
    As for ur everbloom comment: some asian teams have gotten really good times in everbloom but they havent released a video about it, seeing how its almost 1 minute faster than the best EU and US time they most likely oneshot some boss with soul cap.
    Nah, Dark Simulation manipulation with the Pyromancers. It would be extremely difficult to soulcap any boss in Everbloom.

    I don't see how Crows would be better in intense AoE situations? I'm currently running a Marks w/ stampede for single target; the Beast Mastery specialization is purely for AoEing the trash parts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    you can't continue normal rotation and keep Beast Cleave up 100% of the time, so you don't have that choice available to you.

    In any cleave situation especially in CM's you'd prio Beast Cleave
    Oh yea, absolutely; I was just trying to figure out what would be the point where I keep up Beast Cleave rather than absolute Multi-Shot dumping. What I was saying is I prioritize my beast cleave uptime while managing to continue Normal rotation.
    Last edited by Rigsby; 2016-01-28 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by eltonjuan View Post
    Blink Strikes works on Beast Cleave so its superior on AoE which is basicaly 90% of cms.
    Except if you take a hunter you're not taking them for the AoE

  10. #10
    Keyboard Turner Biggerarms's Avatar
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    I haven't pushed any serious times in awhile but recently I have been messing around with Dire Beast and honestly prefer it to any of the other talents now. I got annoyed weaving in Steady Focus on boss burst and Dire Beast does some pretty nice damage. I even started running it in my blink strikes spec and the boss damage you can do without stampede is still pretty large with Dire Beast.

    As to what Durrty said, I agree. You don't really bring a hunter for aoe, although I believe you can keep up with shamans on large AOE pulls. I used to gear for just pure mastery, and didn't worry about the second stat, but now I feel like crit is extremely important for your boss burst. AOE I think pure mastery still wins out, but I notice my boss burst is much more consistent and overall higher with full crit mastery gear.

    In the end, I think it comes down to preference. Interesting to see what other hunters think about it though.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal Rigsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggerarms View Post
    I haven't pushed any serious times in awhile but recently I have been messing around with Dire Beast and honestly prefer it to any of the other talents now. I got annoyed weaving in Steady Focus on boss burst and Dire Beast does some pretty nice damage. I even started running it in my blink strikes spec and the boss damage you can do without stampede is still pretty large with Dire Beast.
    Yea I don't really bother with Steady Focus - It'll fall out before Bestial Wrath ends and wasting the BW with casting Cobra Shots isn't even worth the time. Like I said I'm running Marksmanship for most boss fights because generally the shamans I run with tell me to get bent when I ask to pull I have stacks or to wait for stacks. In my AoE preference thrill of the hunt is a lovely talent. You can easily get out more Multi-Shots in an intense AoE pull like the first one of docks with a few procs - On the other hand I've also gone a complete pull or boss without a proc either.. Guess it's the name of the game in that case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggerarms View Post
    As to what Durrty said, I agree. You don't really bring a hunter for aoe, although I believe you can keep up with shamans on large AOE pulls. I used to gear for just pure mastery, and didn't worry about the second stat, but now I feel like crit is extremely important for your boss burst. AOE I think pure mastery still wins out, but I notice my boss burst is much more consistent and overall higher with full crit mastery gear.
    Oye in all honesty bringing an Enhance shaman would be pretty much better in every way XD Or a rogue rather. I've never been fluent with noticing the difference with various secondary stats - Kinda why I took to the forums. Dreams has always spoken highly of you, so I'll take you at your word and try to tamper around with it. Personally I can't make a difference out of it - Only major things I can particularly notice are stacks, trinkets, and procs.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Pyrophobia's Avatar
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    I myself haven't spared the time to fix a group and do CM in WoD yet and was looking to how to optimize my gear for running them next week.

    So i have a question about the Talisman of the Master tracker for CM as BM is it worth using it, is it bis or far from it considering i have mirror and coin options available too.

    Is it better to switch to MM for bosses and then to BM for trash or to keep 1 of the 2 specs all the time if the difference is too small to matter?

    If it is preferable to switch should i switch out gear too. I have wide options of gear available so i can make 2 sets and switch accordingly.


  13. #13
    coin and mirror are bis for hunters. IMO, MM for bosses is okay... MM is good, but not that good without the t18 4 piece... Its still slightly better than BM on boss fights, but I still stick to my double BM spec. One with stampede for bosses and one with blink strike for trash.

    if you have a crit multistrike set, then sure it is worth going MM for bosses with stampede. But Crit mastery is the way to go for BM

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