Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Question Elemental. How good is it in pve?

    As a ranged dps how good is it in various aspects.

    • Single target
    • Cleave
    • Aoe
    • Switches / fingertip switches
    • How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good
    • If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that
    • Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or something


    Has it been good in Legion in general in various patches? I remember that in HFC elems were useless on anything but pure aoe like 1st boss. Switches were bad and ST was poor.

  2. #2
    -bad
    -bad
    -mediocre (since EQ was basically deleted)
    -mediocre - bad (RNG / Leg dependant)
    -For halfway decent ST you need two specific Legendaries (Gambling build)
    -Full AoE build let your ST drop quite a bit, Lightning Rod however turns AoE Dps into ST
    -Haste / Crit for all builds mostly, so you're good

    Patch History in Legion.
    First bad, then average, and now really bad in ToS.


    3 / 10, play it only if you enjoy the playstyle / theme.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  3. #3
    Single target = bad if you don't have to move, horrible if you have to move
    Cleave = bad
    Aoe = mediocre if mobs die fast, average if they last a bit
    Switches / fingertip switches = mediocre
    How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good = some legendaries are better, if you get those last it sucks pretty hard
    If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that = kinda but not too much
    Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or Something = right now Int sims as my 4th lower stat after crit, mastery and haste...but maybe that's just me.

    History in Legion has been pretty much the same as every other expansion, mediocre to bad all the time with a peak at average once in a while.
    To be honest I don't have the time to reroll or I would, and I would pay for a class change if it was possible.

  4. #4
    I won't answer in bullet form but for a casual it's great. Can top damage in heroics, mythic+ dungeons (I've done +9 at most I think), LFR and normal raids, can top damage in random battle grounds. Can solo good especially with a normal earth elemental totem again. Can do WQ's quick with artifact ability and chain lightning spam.

    In dungeons and raids single target isn't the strongest point, AoE and cleave fights are. I have no issues with mobility.

    Just wanted to add some positivity cause the forums are always full of doomsdaysayers. For a casual the spec is absolutely fine and tons of fun, for a mythic raider probably not.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    Just wanted to add some positivity cause the forums are always full of doomsdaysayers. For a casual the spec is absolutely fine and tons of fun, for a mythic raider probably not.
    Its only fine for a casual if you're playing with other, much less skilled casuals (which is probably your case). The numbers don't magically increase just because you slap the casual word on top of them.

  6. #6
    That's probably true, but also different classes scale with ilvl differently and when absolutely min maxed some classes are more exposed for their weaknesses than others which I believe the case for elemental is. In LFR and normal raids and pugs I usually assume I'm better than most of the other players and expect to always be one of the best players no matter what class I play. Elemental can be top dog for this use, and would be seriously gimped if it couldn't, which is my point.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    That's probably true, but also different classes scale with ilvl differently and when absolutely min maxed some classes are more exposed for their weaknesses than others which I believe the case for elemental is. In LFR and normal raids and pugs I usually assume I'm better than most of the other players and expect to always be one of the best players no matter what class I play. Elemental can be top dog for this use, and would be seriously gimped if it couldn't, which is my point.
    TIL Elemental can beat other specs played by worse players.

    More news at 10

  8. #8
    Not only worse, equivalent!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    As a ranged dps how good is it in various aspects.

    • Single target
    • Cleave
    • Aoe
    • Switches / fingertip switches
    • How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good
    • If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that
    • Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or something


    Has it been good in Legion in general in various patches? I remember that in HFC elems were useless on anything but pure aoe like 1st boss. Switches were bad and ST was poor.
    It's one of the worst classes with no real place in any serious raid team. Play it if you like it but you can do som much better with pretty much any other ranged class.

  10. #10
    Never do. Ele is a completely useless spec. Blizzard wants to keep ele as a bad spec.

    If this is not the case, Blizzard dev's intelligence is not even a chimpanzee.
    Chimpanzees use tools, but Blizzard can not do anything with tools like wcl or wowprogress.
    Last edited by Ele man; 2017-07-31 at 12:34 PM.

  11. #11
    So we've got 2 real AoE encounters this tier on mythic in Harjatan and desolate host and one in mistress Sassz'ine on heroic if you look at warcraft logs ele ranks 3 on harjatan, 6 on host, and 3 on Sassz'ine, and this is what is considered bad for AoE? Wow I hope my classes AoE gets nerfed to be as bad as an elemental shamans.

    Don't get me wrong their single target is one of the worst in the game, but saying ele's AoE is bad just seems kinda crazy.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nospmas View Post
    So we've got 2 real AoE encounters this tier on mythic in Harjatan and desolate host and one in mistress Sassz'ine on heroic if you look at warcraft logs ele ranks 3 on harjatan, 6 on host, and 3 on Sassz'ine, and this is what is considered bad for AoE? Wow I hope my classes AoE gets nerfed to be as bad as an elemental shamans.
    Try to check mythic.

    Har'jatan & Mistress are slightly different, Mistress is basically a question whether you're allowed to AoE or not, very often passive Cleave suffices to kill them.

    Honestly, Balance & Arms beat you at AoE unless RNG gods bless you with Static Overload procs.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    As a ranged dps how good is it in various aspects.

    • Single target
    • Cleave
    • Aoe
    • Switches / fingertip switches
    • How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good
    • If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that
    • Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or something


    Has it been good in Legion in general in various patches? I remember that in HFC elems were useless on anything but pure aoe like 1st boss. Switches were bad and ST was poor.
    Just throwing this out there... I'm currently leveling my 4th shaman since vanilla and Resto does more dps than Ele before acquiring Mastery. Ele lava burst hits for 75% of resto's lava burst - Ele's CL hits for 66% of Resto's CL.

    That's a clear indication of how bad ele is...

  14. #14
    How to fix ele in 3 easy steps:

    1. Roll game back to 5.4
    2. ???
    3. Profit

    Yeah, mastery capping was an issue, but sounds like that's a lot preferrable to what I see listed here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    Just throwing this out there... I'm currently leveling my 4th shaman since vanilla and Resto does more dps than Ele before acquiring Mastery. Ele lava burst hits for 75% of resto's lava burst - Ele's CL hits for 66% of Resto's CL.

    That's a clear indication of how bad ele is...
    I noticed this leveling another shaman during WoD, where almost every spell would hit harder when cast as resto, especially LvB. I would lead groups in damage once I hit WotLK dungeons as resto...

    It's not a clear indication of not so much the fail that is ele so much as the fail of the class balance/design in general.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nospmas View Post
    So we've got 2 real AoE encounters this tier on mythic in Harjatan and desolate host and one in mistress Sassz'ine on heroic if you look at warcraft logs ele ranks 3 on harjatan, 6 on host, and 3 on Sassz'ine, and this is what is considered bad for AoE? Wow I hope my classes AoE gets nerfed to be as bad as an elemental shamans.

    Don't get me wrong their single target is one of the worst in the game, but saying ele's AoE is bad just seems kinda crazy.
    Being ok-ish on some of the easier bosses hardly makes the class good.
    Elemental is shit. Deal with it.

  16. #16
    Wow this thread is more depressing then my life. Im joking. My life is still more depressing.

    Seriously though thanks for all the feedback, its kinda sad if it really is in that poor state. I really like elementals theme and shaman being my first main just brings a lot of nostalgia. Decided i would level it cause i saw it doing insane dmg in Mythic keys on trash and class mount is pretty much the greatest looking mount in the game and fits theme perfectly.

    Has elem ever been better then other ranged specs is some way? Haven't played it since WotLK.

    Also i remember reading blue posts after devs responded to Enchantment shaman issues in 7.2.5 Didnt they say we are pretty happy with where elem is right now? Or i am remembering that wrong.
    Last edited by Nephcyte; 2017-07-31 at 07:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Try to check mythic.

    Har'jatan & Mistress are slightly different, Mistress is basically a question whether you're allowed to AoE or not, very often passive Cleave suffices to kill them.

    Honestly, Balance & Arms beat you at AoE unless RNG gods bless you with Static Overload procs.
    So bad at aoe means only balance and arms beat u?

    Anyway were pretty much around the top on AoE burst and if they had not of messed with EQ we would be even better. Hopefully they revert the change but looking at their PTR for 7.3 they are doing a bunch of stupid things that ppl are calling them out on so they are taking some of it back but it still isnt helping EQ at all.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2017-07-31 at 09:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    So bad at aoe means only balance and arms beat u?
    if you go back to my original post you'd find out that i consider Elementals AoE "Mediocre".

    I could probably name a few other specs that also beat you at AoE, Balance / Arms are currently extreme outliners in terms of overall damage.

    For a Spec that is supposed to have AoE as it's niche, which has been repeated multiple times, it should be among the top 3, not just " above average i guess".
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    As a ranged dps how good is it in various aspects.

    • Single target
    • Cleave
    • Aoe
    • Switches / fingertip switches
    • How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good
    • If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that
    • Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or something


    Has it been good in Legion in general in various patches? I remember that in HFC elems were useless on anything but pure aoe like 1st boss. Switches were bad and ST was poor.
    [*]Single target
    Mediocre if allowed to tunnel, bottom if you need to execute mechanics.

    [*]Cleave
    Same as above.

    [*]Aoe
    Can be strong, but there is a serious caveat: you have zero control over it and have to rely on a dice roll with every cast. This is a good read if you want specifics: https://www.stormearthandlava.com/rngsus/
    What has to be noted is that the nature of elemental's aoe is a detriment to most fights in mythic ToS, such as mistress or kj, where the speed at which adds die has to be controlled and they are often spread out of Chain Lightning's jump radius. Let's not get into discussing EQ, which even if buffed by 200% would still be next to useless, due to how mobile all of the adds are.

    [*]Switches / fingertip switches
    Single target:
    Switching into targets that are in range and you were allowed to keep flame shock rolling on, yields no real penalty.
    Fingertip switches - you need to be at 20+ maelstrom with elemental focus up, apply fs and re-start your cast. Having to do that can also lead to losing on Elemental Blast buff uptime, overlapping Lava Surge procs, wasting glove proc, etc.
    AOE:
    No penalty, you can pre-cast first CL into the boss just as adds are about to spawn and then alternate between targets to keep LR rolling on as many targets as possible.
    [*]How dependent is it on good legendaries to do good
    The difference between everything apart from gloves is minuscule. The said gloves also come with a caveat: RNG factor, they can be a huge increase, or just another stat stick, dependant on how many chickens you sacrificed before your raid.

    [*]If you go with a cleave/aoe build talent wise do u get punished a lot on ST due to that
    You do, but that is true for pretty much every spec in the game, no difference here and that should be persevered, otherwise you'd never switch talents.

    [*]Is it one of the specs with fucked up stat prio like int on 3rd place after mastery/haste or something
    At higher ilvls (920+) and proper stat distribution intellect will be your lowest.

    Allow me to add a few things that were not asked:

    [*]Survivability
    The weakest defensive toolkit out of all ranged specs in the game, period. No self healing and one 40%, 8 sec duration wall with a 1.5min cooldown. That's it.

    [*]Raid utility
    Non existent. Lust is provided by a number of other specs and you bring NOTHING to the group apart from that.

    [*]Mobility
    You have ZERO non-situational single target abilities that can be used under movement. Let's list what you 'can' do:

    Lava surge - random proc, out of player control

    Dump maelstrom into earth shock - only if you are at a proper ms threshold and - if you are using gloves - only AFTER the movement is finished, otherwise you'll be wasting the potential asc proc.

    Refresh/apply flame shock - only if you are at 20+ maelstrom and you have elemental focus up. Refreshing fs that is above the pandemic duration without those two conditions met is a dps loss, you're better off not casting anything.

    Stormkeeper into lb or cl - 1 minute cooldown... enough said. Also note that depending on the fight duration, holding SK for movement phases can lead to fewer uses, in which case it can be an overall dps loss.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    Just throwing this out there... I'm currently leveling my 4th shaman since vanilla and Resto does more dps than Ele before acquiring Mastery. Ele lava burst hits for 75% of resto's lava burst - Ele's CL hits for 66% of Resto's CL.

    That's a clear indication of how bad ele is...
    That's not an indication of anything of the sort. Resto has fewer active damage spells, fewer passive damage spells, different mastery, talents etc etc etc. It's got nothing to do with damage as a spec so they need to make the spells hit harder so resto can actually solo and level the game before hitting max level. Come on people, if you actually believe resto does more damage than ele I'm really speachless.

    Just try both specs on a target dummy for 5-10 minutes and report back to me...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •