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  1. #1

    Noob destro lock OOMing on longer fights

    Hey guys, so I've got an Warlock alt I thought I'd go after Green Fire on; the toon is by no means my primary alt, so I'm very much a lock noob. XD I've seen several guides suggest going Destro, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I was practicing to get the hang of it on Timeless Isle, but on several elite fights, I find myself running out of mana (and before the mob hits 20% health, so no Shadowburn), and wanted to try to figure out what I was doing wrong to make that happen.

    I realize I'm not including a log of my spells cast, so bear with me. XD I'm doing my best to follow the Icy Veins destro guide as far as basic rotation, but I'm positive it's a rotation issue on my part. I think I've caught myself using Incinerate 5+ times in a row, and I think on about the 2nd or 3rd time through the "rotation"

    I'm trying to do Shadowburn when it's available, but I notice that I don't always have enough embers to do it; part of that may be because I've spec'd Grimoire of Sacrifice, and so my Void Lord is only a Void Walker (I'm just not cool enough to sit there and dps elite mobs on Timeless Isle by myself, lol). It could also be my spec choices; I haven't even chosen a level 90 talent yet, and I have 1 out of 3 major glyphs.

    Another thing could be I haven't done any reforging. As I'm only going after Green Fire on a very much alt toon, I'm not sure I'm looking to spend a bunch of cash on gems and enchants, especially since my IL isn't that great (my AIL is about 478 I believe), so I'm mostly relying on reforging (which hasn't been done either, lol), but if gems and enchants will actually make the difference, I'll check into it. I may be too hit heavy, and could be reforging for either Mastery, or at least crit.

    I'm pretty embarassed to share this, but... in the interest of some better instruction...
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eniphis/simple

    TL;DR: I guess I'm looking for some "ah ha" comment from someone who recognizes why a destro noob would be OOMing on elite mobs. XD

  2. #2
    Only reason you'd ever go OOM destro is you're not using Chaos Bolt. You can be OOM and cast 2 of them and you're at full mana again. I didn't even think it was possible to OOM destro LOL.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misuteri View Post
    Only reason you'd ever go OOM destro is you're not using Chaos Bolt. You can be OOM and cast 2 of them and you're at full mana again. I didn't even think it was possible to OOM destro LOL.

    This is correct, with very little haste, the effect of not using chaos bolt is more noticed.
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  4. #4
    Sanity check here... Destro regens mana really quick, if ur going oom its just for a few secs right? If not then ur prob not playing destro

    Now, if u are really just noticing that some times u dont have mana to cast things, what u should try is to optimize how u use ur conflagrate... U should avoid using the conflagrate into chaos bolt, instead, use ur conflagrate mana reduced buff (cant rememeber the name of the buff) to cast incinerates and build embers. When u have an ember and ideally dps procs like trinkets etc then you cast a chaos bolt. Due to the time it takes to cast Chaos Bolt ur mana will regen more than you use to cast it, so effectively casting a CB is a way to save mana.

  5. #5
    What are you using for your filler? If you're using Fel Flame I can see going OOM.

  6. #6
    High Overlord gry's Avatar
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    How is it even possible to be OOM while Destro specced? Is this a troll?

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  7. #7
    If you have grim sac then you shouldnt have any void walker out really. If you need the tank then go grim supremecy.

  8. #8
    Despite what people are saying, it is entirely possible to go OoM as Destro. It was a serious concern prior to T16 where we all have a ton of Haste. In the first tier of MoP mana was a severely limiting factor on performance and Simc APLs actually included cases for casting Chaos Bolts to regen mana.

    Extensive use of RoF/Fel Flame will speed up the mana loss, so consider that as well.

  9. #9
    For those wondering: no, I'm not trolling, and I'm not going OOM constantly either... it's just on longer fights, and as I said, the reason is because I'm terrible. XD As I say, I'm sure it's just that I'm doing the rotation incorrectly. For example, I've *not* been doing chaos bolt that much, but then, I feel like I'm not hitting that 3-to-3.5 embers; it may be that I am and not realizing it, so this could all be because I'm not watching my embers closely enough, I'll try to find an addon to make those more visible for myself.

    I think the times when I find myself going OOM is after REPEATED castings of Incinerate; like, I think I've even seen myself cast 6-8 Incinerates, and since I'm OOMing off those castings, that tells me I'm doing it very wrong. XD Not really using Fel Flame, because the mobs on Timeless Isle are more or less stationary.

    Grim Sac can go; it was just because of a suggested guide for Green Fire; right now, the talent/glyph choices I *do* have are based around that, as opposed to actual every-day Destro gameplay.

    @land, I imagine you're also onto something for Conflag optimization; I feel like I'm just spamming Conflag once it comes back up, even if I have only one charge... Is that correct priority (assuming insufficient embers for CB)?

    Bottom line, sounds like I'm not using CB/managing my embers enough, and that's likely because I don't have an addon telling me where I'm at with embers. I'll look into that tonight after work and report back----thanks so much for the advice so far, and sorry for freaking everyone out with how bad I am at Destro right now.... XD I play so many other classes before I play warlock (Paladin, Shaman, Priest, Death Knight, maybe one or two more), so that's why I'm so out of practice. XD

    EDIT: Hey Brusalk! Saw the guide, looked great! Glad to see you posting to a humble thread like mine XD

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ChromWolf View Post
    For those wondering: no, I'm not trolling, and I'm not going OOM constantly either... it's just on longer fights, and as I said, the reason is because I'm terrible. XD As I say, I'm sure it's just that I'm doing the rotation incorrectly. For example, I've *not* been doing chaos bolt that much, but then, I feel like I'm not hitting that 3-to-3.5 embers; it may be that I am and not realizing it, so this could all be because I'm not watching my embers closely enough, I'll try to find an addon to make those more visible for myself.

    I think the times when I find myself going OOM is after REPEATED castings of Incinerate; like, I think I've even seen myself cast 6-8 Incinerates, and since I'm OOMing off those castings, that tells me I'm doing it very wrong. XD Not really using Fel Flame, because the mobs on Timeless Isle are more or less stationary.

    Grim Sac can go; it was just because of a suggested guide for Green Fire; right now, the talent/glyph choices I *do* have are based around that, as opposed to actual every-day Destro gameplay.

    @land, I imagine you're also onto something for Conflag optimization; I feel like I'm just spamming Conflag once it comes back up, even if I have only one charge... Is that correct priority (assuming insufficient embers for CB)?

    Bottom line, sounds like I'm not using CB/managing my embers enough, and that's likely because I don't have an addon telling me where I'm at with embers. I'll look into that tonight after work and report back----thanks so much for the advice so far, and sorry for freaking everyone out with how bad I am at Destro right now.... XD I play so many other classes before I play warlock (Paladin, Shaman, Priest, Death Knight, maybe one or two more), so that's why I'm so out of practice. XD

    EDIT: Hey Brusalk! Saw the guide, looked great! Glad to see you posting to a humble thread like mine XD
    Are you using conflags & using those Backdraft buff stacks on incernates? From what I remember, your mana usage ends up being neutral when casting hasted incinerates from Backdraft

    As long as you do that, and NEVER cap on embers, you should have NO issues on mana.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bareno View Post
    Are you using conflags & using those Backdraft buff stacks on incernates? From what I remember, your mana usage ends up being neutral when casting hasted incinerates from Backdraft

    As long as you do that, and NEVER cap on embers, you should have NO issues on mana.
    That may be part of why I think I'm casting so many Incinerates (I've been VERY sparing--it sounds like too much so--with CB, so I'm fairly certain I'm not using Backdraft on CBs); I may just go find myself a target dummy tonight rather than messing around on the timeless isle, because it sounds like working on balancing my procs and spell usage without relying on Shadowburn sounds like something I should focus on.

    I know some people frown on Recount, but does anyone have a boss fight parse of their spell usage percentages? That may also help nudge me into alignment for where I need to be on spell-to-spell usage, and give a good indicator for where I'm off.

  12. #12
    As Brusalk pointed out, Fel Flame and Rain of Fire are also very high mana cost spells, combined with being instant.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gry View Post
    How is it even possible to be OOM while Destro specced? Is this a troll?
    By spamming mana-costly spells.

  14. #14
    Going oom is a common thing in warlocks, especially at lower gear levels. Prior to ~535 levels, it's fairly common to go oom near the start of a fight, after you use your first ember for your first chaos bolt(assuming trinkets are still up) you have No conflags up, No embers and no trinket procs coming up - you effectively have 3.5 embers worth of incinerates to cast. Some things you can do to mitigate this is to simply not use your first ember, and wait until either a) you're sub 30% mana, or b) 3.5 embers to throw your first chaos bolt. AoE fights are also a huge drain on your mana, but return a lot of embers - so it evens out in the end. Just be wary of spamming Rain of fire.

    At your item level, you really will have an issue with mana. Optimize your mana as if you were a hunter, and Chaos bolts are your Mana regeners. Try to not cap your mana, only spend backdraft on incinerates, and work on getting a few more pieces of gear - especially with haste. Best of luck!
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bareno View Post
    Are you using conflags & using those Backdraft buff stacks on incernates? From what I remember, your mana usage ends up being neutral when casting hasted incinerates from Backdraft

    As long as you do that, and NEVER cap on embers, you should have NO issues on mana.
    Backdraft reduces the cast time of Incinerate by the same amount that it reduces it's mana cost by. As a result, both types of Incinerates have the same mana cost per second (MCpS). The mana cost reduction is purely so that you don't make yourself go oom even faster by using backdraft correctly.

    Chain casting Incinerates will always make you go OoM regardless of how much gear you have. The actual reason why you don't go OoM as much when you have more gear is because you are casting more Chaos Bolts per second as ember generation is higher with more Haste. As a result of spending an increasingly large percentage of time casting a mana-positive spell, you can maintain a mana neutral rotation single target. When you have less Haste and aren't casting as many Chaos Bolts per second, you end up with a mana-negative rotation which may force you to cast extra Chaos Bolts to regen mana so you can continue your rotation. (This has a cost associated with it though, as you're now casting a sub-optimal Chaos Bolt with that ember you could've otherwise used on a proc.)

  16. #16
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    Cast Chaos Bolt more.

  17. #17
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    First of all link your armory I want to see your gear, If you think your ooming because of the lack of embers then try Mastrey>Crit>haste build. Get TMW (addon) and make it show your DS, 4set, 2 trinket procs, this will show you the gateways where you should cast chaos bolt.

    Or if your problem is because you are keeping too many embers:
    If you have around 3+ embers then I suggest you cast a chaos bolt during 4 set proc window and also an immolate immediatly before the buff runs out.
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  18. #18
    Those "longer elite fights" on Timeless Isle wouldn't happen to all be Evermaw, would they?
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Backdraft reduces the cast time of Incinerate by the same amount that it reduces it's mana cost by. As a result, both types of Incinerates have the same mana cost per second (MCpS). The mana cost reduction is purely so that you don't make yourself go oom even faster by using backdraft correctly.

    Chain casting Incinerates will always make you go OoM regardless of how much gear you have. The actual reason why you don't go OoM as much when you have more gear is because you are casting more Chaos Bolts per second as ember generation is higher with more Haste. As a result of spending an increasingly large percentage of time casting a mana-positive spell, you can maintain a mana neutral rotation single target. When you have less Haste and aren't casting as many Chaos Bolts per second, you end up with a mana-negative rotation which may force you to cast extra Chaos Bolts to regen mana so you can continue your rotation. (This has a cost associated with it though, as you're now casting a sub-optimal Chaos Bolt with that ember you could've otherwise used on a proc.)
    Not to mention the passive mana regeneration for Destro goes up with Haste. So not only are you generating more embers for more Chaos Bolts, you're also restoring mana faster.
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  20. #20
    Please look up and follow rotation on the sticky before coming here asking why something is wrong.
    You are either spamming RoF every GCD or spamming Fel Flame.

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