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  1. #1

    Mythic+ | Blade of Wrath or Divine Hammer?

    ello!

    If you would go Mythic+ specc, would you pick Blade of Wrath or Divine Hammer for those speedruns?

  2. #2
    Divine hammer all the way every time. It's actually not for behind even on single target, and in m+ you are doing aoe most of the time.
    Hopelez <Ebrius>
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  3. #3
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    On sims anything greater then 1 target it is a dps increase and in mythic+ where trash is highly important it is very noticeable. I have also been taking consecration to mythic+, I still pull 600-700k on boss fights and can break a million dps on trash consistently.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Azsune View Post
    On sims anything greater then 1 target it is a dps increase and in mythic+ where trash is highly important it is very noticeable. I have also been taking consecration to mythic+, I still pull 600-700k on boss fights and can break a million dps on trash consistently.
    So consecration + Divine Hammer?

    Do you mind to tell your piority spells? I mean, all the same but you include both consecration and divine hammer on it? Same think for single target or you leave those 2 out?

    Sorry to ask, I am pretty new to Retri...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeteranoNoob View Post
    So consecration + Divine Hammer?

    Do you mind to tell your piority spells? I mean, all the same but you include both consecration and divine hammer on it? Same think for single target or you leave those 2 out?

    Sorry to ask, I am pretty new to Retri...
    For single target it takes about 20 seconds into the fight before I use consecration. This is due to the fact it does really bad single target damage and it actually fits into the divine hammer, zeal, consecration rotation very well. Once you get going you pretty much use it on cd since if you didn't you would have down time. Just did a mythic 10 brh pulled 700k dps first 3 bosses like this. Final boss was 1.2 million but you cant really use him for comparisons.

    Aoe wise I open up with divine hammer before pull since you get holy power as soon as you deal damage with it to try and get as much holy power as possible. I don't wake on pull or I would lose that 2 holy power from pre hammers. Then I lay down consecration if its 3 or more. If its a 2 pull I do single target rotation with divine storm replacing verdict.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forgot to mention my overall damage breakdown. Divine Hammer(20%) > Divine Storm(18%) > Zeal(13%) > consecration(11%) > Templar's Verdict(10%). Based off last run of BRH but the order of the spells stays consistent in any m+ that divine hammer is beating out storm on overall which seems crazy to me.

  6. #6
    Azune, I'm glad to see someone is having good dmg with Divine Hammer. I have a question, what's your haste at? The only haste gear I can seem to get has mastery all over it so mine is just at 20% trying to avoid that terrible mastery. When I use Divine Hammer my HP generation seems suuuper slow.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Azsune View Post
    For single target it takes about 20 seconds into the fight before I use consecration. This is due to the fact it does really bad single target damage and it actually fits into the divine hammer, zeal, consecration rotation very well. Once you get going you pretty much use it on cd since if you didn't you would have down time. Just did a mythic 10 brh pulled 700k dps first 3 bosses like this. Final boss was 1.2 million but you cant really use him for comparisons.

    Aoe wise I open up with divine hammer before pull since you get holy power as soon as you deal damage with it to try and get as much holy power as possible. I don't wake on pull or I would lose that 2 holy power from pre hammers. Then I lay down consecration if its 3 or more. If its a 2 pull I do single target rotation with divine storm replacing verdict.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forgot to mention my overall damage breakdown. Divine Hammer(20%) > Divine Storm(18%) > Zeal(13%) > consecration(11%) > Templar's Verdict(10%). Based off last run of BRH but the order of the spells stays consistent in any m+ that divine hammer is beating out storm on overall which seems crazy to me.
    Thank you very much for all those details.

    I am coming from DK, which was pretty good I might add, and I am reallllly lost with retribution. I got pratice more cause right now I cant even say I spent 2 hours doing retribution, but as far as I tried, it feels really lose, seems that I can land dps with it, do know how to explain.

    Read many guides, watched videos and so, but I still really lost.

    Anyway, thanks alot!!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighHoltage View Post
    Azune, I'm glad to see someone is having good dmg with Divine Hammer. I have a question, what's your haste at? The only haste gear I can seem to get has mastery all over it so mine is just at 20% trying to avoid that terrible mastery. When I use Divine Hammer my HP generation seems suuuper slow.
    I have 22% haste and a lot of mastery. I think it is because I main as holy and I don't really ask people for upgrades for off specs as much as I do as holy and holy for me is Crit(going for 45%) > vers = mastery trying to get ver and mastery around same amount but everything has mastery one it alm. As holy I have 45% crit with 40% mastery and 5-6% vers.

    My ret gear almost has more crit then haste. I have 22% haste, 24% crit, 30% mastery and 5% vers. I do have an Eye of Command and Faulty Countermeasure(870) which help out a lot on single target. I also do not have ret legendaries.

    I do have other rets that I run with and when they switch to this there damage in m+ is considerably higher. We went from taking them as a last resort to taking them as a first pick. I feel like rets are currently top 3 dps for mythic+. They do really good aoe near top and don't give up all single target damage to do it.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Azsune View Post
    On sims anything greater then 1 target it is a dps increase and in mythic+ where trash is highly important it is very noticeable. I have also been taking consecration to mythic+, I still pull 600-700k on boss fights and can break a million dps on trash consistently.
    Too bad you're not logging then, since that consistent 1mil on trash and 700k on bosses in a Divine Hammer/Zeal/Consecration build would beat almost every parse out there on every M+ for every Ret Paladin, even more so considering you just said you have no ret legendaries. So you're even beating the guys who parse high with the soon-to-be-nerfed Chain of Thrayn and Liadrin's Fury.

    Teach us. Very impressive.
    Last edited by Myz; 2017-01-17 at 10:53 AM.

  10. #10
    I honestly don't know what the fuss is about, Consecration is like the worst talent for everything except real niche scenarios. Core problem is obviously that mobs can and will move out of your AoE and render it totally useless. I would never even try it in M+ unless the tank is a blood DK that masspulled everything every 2min.

    I have tried DH as well, but honestly I dish out more damage with DS from the increased holy power generation from BoW. And it feels clunky as hell with low haste.

  11. #11
    I cannot see why you should not use divine hammer in mythic+. I find it way superior to BoW. Pair TFoJ with divine hammer is my way to go now after the buff.
    I have legendary cape + prydas equipped.
    I think we can conclude from sims that if Divine hammer does for me 20-25k less on Singletarget dmg it is a MUST use on mythic+ and let me tell you that you wont regret it.
    Last edited by Kastong; 2017-01-17 at 12:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Another question regarding DH in favor of Blade ... Don't you guys get a load of "nothing to press"-time when using DH? I'm sitting on 24% haste (unbuffed) and I find myself with several windows of nothing to do, sometimes even for like 2 seconds...

    Am I doing something wrong or is the DH-spec rather slow and not that active? It stresses the shit out of me to NOT have stuff to press... :/
    "You'll never get to heaven if you're afraid of getting high!"

  13. #13
    If you are using zeal that might be the case. TFoj gives you a smoother rotation until 4'th piece etc. And since i have cape and if you have TFoJ imo is the best option until 4 set or else you risk the downtime you are talking about.

  14. #14
    Correct, I'm using Zeal, but sadly no cape... I'm trying to find a spec that I dont have to change so much, i.e. good balance between st and aoe and that's why I wanted to incorporate DH into it... but seems I'll have to give up Zeal to use DH, as the downtime must be a dps loss in the long run.
    "You'll never get to heaven if you're afraid of getting high!"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    Too bad you're not logging then, since that consistent 1mil on trash and 700k on bosses in a Divine Hammer/Zeal/Consecration build would beat almost every parse out there on every M+ for every Ret Paladin, even more so considering you just said you have no ret legendaries. So you're even beating the guys who parse high with the soon-to-be-nerfed Chain of Thrayn and Liadrin's Fury.

    Teach us. Very impressive.
    Not all that impressive, and far from surprising, considering nobody logs M+
    "Why make trillions when we could make... billions??"

  16. #16
    Only started using Divine Hammer after the buff %. I use TFoJ + DH. I think consecration is bad, yes I've tried it.

    Legendaries: Cape + Belt.

    I've been using Divine Hammer for boosts mostly, I use it for high Mythic + depending on the affixes for 10+ for that week. This week the mobs are buffed so for a quick clear Divine Hammer comes in Handy, once bosses get buffed I switch back to Blade on high M+.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Simulacrum View Post
    Not all that impressive, and far from surprising, considering nobody logs M+
    Since I prefer statements based on data and reason as opposed to gut feeling or opinions fed by ignorance, let's have a look:

    Today we've had 438 M+ logs so far. Yesterday that was 762. Last week alone there was a total of ~6400 M+ logs, or in all likelihood 19200 DPS logs. We know, based on the data, that the Ret share among the total amount of DPS parses is 7.4%, so we'll have on average about 1426 Ret logs. Assuming, and it's a safe assumption, that logs aren't readily used among casual players and more prevalent in the raiding community, and thus indicating we have a quality data set, that's no meager amount of data to draw conclusions from. Over the course of only 1 week.

    That's no small amount for 5-man content and plenty of data points to use for analytical purposes.

    My assertion still stands: his numbers are bullshit. A Holy Paladin running his Ret off-spec with a Consecration/Zeal/Divine Hammer build, without any Ret legendaries, and most likely without a massive (40+) amount of traits in his Ashbringer, is not going to average a consistent 1mil+ on trash and 700k on bosses.
    Data doesn't back up his statements, and there's no reasonable assumption that the data quality is sorely lacking.

    What have you got? Or is that all?
    Last edited by Myz; 2017-01-17 at 04:17 PM.

  18. #18
    I for my part did this weeks mythic+ by going full AOE cons/GJ/DH and pulled around 600-800k average on trash(4-6) mobs on average and 400k-500k on bosses. This average includes wings.
    You don´t have to take my word for it since our usual logging bitch was out for some abstract thing concept real life. Don´t ask me I didn´t understood it either.
    ... and the Omnissiah did speak, thusly: "RTFM"

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  19. #19
    We don't log our M+'s but our weekly 12 we run I average a little over 600k overall dps. Not using pots, just flask and food.

    I'd be fairy surprised if a Ret with no legendaries and worse gear/traits than me does the same damage as me.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    Since I prefer statements based on data and reason as opposed to gut feeling or opinions fed by ignorance, let's have a look:

    Today we've had 438 M+ logs so far. Yesterday that was 762. Last week alone there was a total of ~6400 M+ logs, or in all likelihood 19200 DPS logs. We know, based on the data, that the Ret share among the total amount of DPS parses is 7.4%, so we'll have on average about 1426 Ret logs. Assuming, and it's a safe assumption, that logs aren't readily used among casual players and more prevalent in the raiding community, and thus indicating we have a quality data set, that's no meager amount of data to draw conclusions from. Over the course of only 1 week.

    That's no small amount for 5-man content and plenty of data points to use for analytical purposes.

    My assertion still stands: his numbers are bullshit. A Holy Paladin running his Ret off-spec with a Consecration/Zeal/Divine Hammer build, without any Ret legendaries, and most likely without a massive (40+) amount of traits in his Ashbringer, is not going to average a consistent 1mil+ on trash and 700k on bosses.
    Data doesn't back up his statements, and there's no reasonable assumption that the data quality is sorely lacking.

    What have you got? Or is that all?
    I didn't say every pull was over 1 million... When they are it is because wings is up and a decent sized pull or multiple packs were pulled and yes we do pull multi pack on bolstering week. Over a whole instance I sit around 600k my best was around 800k but that was a bit of a crazy run. My weapon is only lvl 35 with 885 ilvl equipped.

    Anyways I do a lot of m+ here is a link to my wow progress only thing I don't have a lot of time for is a consistent time to play every week.
    http://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/azgalor/Azsune

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