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  1. #1

    11% Haste, how important is it?

    Hey guys, quick fury question, was wondering is it 11% haste raid buffed or unbuffed, and how important is reaching that number if it is unbuffed?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Kostattoo's Avatar
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    The deal is when raid buffed to reduce bloodthirst cd to 4 or less sec. Since enrage is 8sec you basically get 2 chances on getting/refreshing enraged again till previous one expires. I think its pretty much self-explainotary how important that can be. As a side effect you probably get some additional rage from faster auto-attacks.
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  3. #3
    last time i checked, 11% is NOT enough to push BT below 4s ...
    yes the haste "breakpoints" we currently use are not strict like the breakpoints for dot-classes used to be in MoP, but still... shouldnt it be more like 13% to actually achieve what its supposed to do?

    just curious ... as 11% really dont make a lot of sense mathematically, but maybe im missing something

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Kostattoo's Avatar
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    Not home atm but its not 11% raid buffed, if i recall corectly last time i checked raid buffed you needed a tiny bit under 14%, add some "lag" 14% was a good number
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Not home atm but its not 11% raid buffed, if i recall corectly last time i checked raid buffed you needed a tiny bit under 14%, add some "lag" 14% was a good number
    its around 12.9x% but ye, with some lag, you want to have 13+
    i mean we do have a 14% raidbuffed "breakpoint" as well, so the 11% just dont really makes any sense unless im missing something, which would be typical currently (brain like a sieve >.<)

  6. #6
    The BT CD has to be reduced from 4.5 to 4.0 seconds. That requires ~11% haste, because:

    4.5 - (4.5)*.11 = 4.0

    Can someone explain where these 12 13 and 14% numbers are actually coming from?

  7. #7
    Thanks gentleman, I was actually way below the mark for the 4 second BT cd which with my latency make the worlds difference coming off cd.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by angelmaz View Post
    The BT CD has to be reduced from 4.5 to 4.0 seconds. That requires ~11% haste, because:

    4.5 - (4.5)*.11 = 4.0

    Can someone explain where these 12 13 and 14% numbers are actually coming from?
    People already explained it pretty well, just read the thread.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vexew View Post
    People already explained it pretty well, just read the thread.
    I haven't seen a single clear explanation of the 14% and 18% haste breakpoints anywhere in the Fury thread. Thanks for the useless comment though.

    I was actually referring to the numbers being presented in this thread, btw.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by angelmaz View Post
    I haven't seen a single clear explanation of the 14% and 18% haste breakpoints anywhere in the Fury thread. Thanks for the useless comment though.

    I was actually referring to the numbers being presented in this thread, btw.
    12.77% equipped haste(ie. no raid buffs, racial perks, ect) puts my BT cooldown at 3.99 seconds. Because I generally have around 100-120 latency, I would want more than that to be able to compensate for lag. This is where the 13-14% numbers you are seeing are coming from.

    It was mentioned several times in the thread that you need at least 13 and probably closer to 14% to account for lag. You need about 84% reading comprehension to penetrate your skull :P

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by angelmaz View Post
    4.5 - (4.5)*.11 = 4.0
    i use another forumla as i like that better (yields the same result): 4.5 / (1+haste%)
    4.5 / (1+0.11) = 4.5 / 1.11 = 4,05...

    if you do math, dont just round randomly... 11% is not even mathematically enough to get it under 4s (not even talking about lag yet)

    the 11% just dont make any sense... it seems like some random number.
    12% would have been a better thing but as said before, 13%+ is needed to get it under 4s AND account for lag.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethanor View Post
    i use another forumla as i like that better (yields the same result): 4.5 / (1+haste%)
    This is the correct way to calculate haste reductions. (Edit: To clarify, I am saying that Sethanor has posted the correct formula to determine delay due to the effect of haste, as opposed to what angelmaz posted, which is wrong.) The reason that it is Delay / (1 + haste%) is that, if it were Delay - Delay * haste%, at 100% haste there would be -zero- delay. Haste is an increase in frequency; 100% haste is "double the frequency", not "infinitely more frequency".

    To calculate haste breakpoints, it's basic algebra: TargetDelay = Delay / (1 + Haste%). After simplifying, this yields:

    Haste% = (Delay - TargetDelay) / TargetDelay

    Which for BT gives

    Haste% = (4.5 - 4) / 4 = 0.5 / 4 = 0.125

    Or 12.5% haste.
    Last edited by Idealist; Yesterday at 12:11 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Idealist View Post
    This is the correct way to calculate haste reductions. The reason that it is Delay / (1 + haste%) is that, if it were Delay - Delay * haste%, at 100% haste there would be -zero- delay. Haste is an increase in frequency; 100% haste is "double the frequency", not "infinitely more frequency".

    To calculate haste breakpoints, it's basic algebra: TargetDelay = Delay / (1 + Haste%). After simplifying, this yields:

    Haste% = (Delay - TargetDelay) / TargetDelay

    Which for BT gives

    Haste% = (4.5 - 4) / 4 = 0.5 / 4 = 0.125

    Or 12.5% haste.
    Your wrong and his formula his right. / 1 + % become / 2 at 100 wich =/= 0 but 2.25 sec out of a 4.5sec CD.

    Youl never reach 0delay with his formula your mistaken with delay * % wich isnt accurate and would indeed = 0 delay at 100%.

    Never understood why so many use the same formula as you. Its so long for nothing.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Yes, the correct formula is CD / (1+ .Haste) = new CD or 4.5 / 1.125 = 4

    Keep in mind that Haste cannot reduce a cooldown/GCD below 1s (which is why it doesn't affect WS), and it does cap out at 50%; so the lowest you'll get your Bloodthirst CD is 3s.

    What Idealist seems to be doing is backwards math, trying to figure out how much Haste he has from comparing the old cooldown length to the new one, whereas most of us are doing the opposite; trying to find the new cooldown with a given amount of Haste.

    Although that doesn't give you "breakpoints". Breakpoints are the amounts that have a significant or obvious affect on the rotation, so you have to apply the knowledge to all the other timing. For Fury, those revolve around using Bloodthirst inside Enrage, and getting extra GCDs inside Enrage and Recklessness.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2015-05-03 at 07:26 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Keep in mind that Haste cannot reduce a cooldown/GCD below 1s (which is why it doesn't affect WS), and it does cap out at 50%; so the lowest you'll get your Bloodthirst CD is 3s.
    Not below 3s because we can't or because we shouldn't? I get my MS CD to 2,X secs at Sinestra, f.e.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    Not below 3s because we can't or because we shouldn't? I get my MS CD to 2,X secs at Sinestra, f.e.
    Hmmm, I'll have to double check. Last time I looked was during beta and it was a limitation, but it may have been changed or it may be due to the buff during the fight.

    Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I believe the 50% cap was only for the GCD, so as to not allow it to go below 1s; but abilities can be reduced further, as long as they don't drop below 1s as well.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Yes, the correct formula is CD / (1+ .Haste) = new CD or 4.5 / 1.125 = 4
    I believe that's exactly what I said?

    What Idealist seems to be doing is backwards math, trying to figure out how much Haste he has from comparing the old cooldown length to the new one, whereas most of us are doing the opposite; trying to find the new cooldown with a given amount of Haste.
    How did you even get this from what I wrote? I simply explained how to solve for the amount of haste to reach the desired CD, in this case, 4.0s BT. If you have a base CD of x, a desired CD of z, and you're solving for haste y, then y = (x - z) / z

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idealist View Post
    How did you even get this from what I wrote? I simply explained how to solve for the amount of haste to reach the desired CD, in this case, 4.0s BT. If you have a base CD of x, a desired CD of z, and you're solving for haste y, then y = (x - z) / z
    Because it is exactly what you wrote.

    The formula to find out reduction; that is what the new CD is after a given amount of Haste is CD / (1 + .Haste) = New CD

    The formula to find out Haste needed to reach a given amount of reduction is (Base CD - Modified CD) / Base CD = Haste

    I was clarifying because while both of formulas are correct, they are used for reaching different conclusions. The lack of context is what causes confusing counter posts.

  19. #19
    well now that everyone knows the right formula, can we get back on topic?

    WHY is there a 11% haste "breakpoint" when it mathematically serves no purpose?

    shouldnt there only be 2: first one at 13-14% (depending on ping, more is better) and the second one at 17.x (which currently is rounded up to 18% to compensate for lag, again, a bit more might be better)

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethanor View Post
    well now that everyone knows the right formula, can we get back on topic?

    WHY is there a 11% haste "breakpoint" when it mathematically serves no purpose?

    shouldnt there only be 2: first one at 13-14% (depending on ping, more is better) and the second one at 17.x (which currently is rounded up to 18% to compensate for lag, again, a bit more might be better)
    Because there is a GCD. Bloodthirst doesn't do shit so it doesn't have to be completely inside Enrage, it just needs to be close enough to keep the uptime high so that the next ability benefits from the damage.

    Important to remember that Wild Strike can throw a lot of normal timing off as well, especially when considering GCDs used during Reck and so on.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; Yesterday at 07:51 AM.

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