Poll: Should there be a political forum?

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  1. #1
    Mechagnome champ3000's Avatar
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    Should we have our own Political Forum?

    Hey guys,

    Do you think we should have our own forum for political topics? I think we need one. I believe this because with the upcoming 2012 elections, I forsee an immense number of posts and threads about it that will overwhelm the off-topic forum and make it a hindrance on the mods and the people that want to talk about other off-topic things..

    So, what do you guys think?


    * I would have put this in the feedback forum, but it didn't look like a lot of people were viewing....
    "Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves."
    -Carl Sagan

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Moved to Suggestions and Feedback.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome champ3000's Avatar
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    AKA closed..
    "Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves."
    -Carl Sagan

  4. #4
    It could be called "Battlegrounds"

  5. #5
    Deleted
    I'd recommend you to discuss politics at another forum if you want to have a serious and mature conversation about the elections. To me it seems that on MMO-Champion pretty much half of the people who write posts are trolls, the other half are people stuck with their own views and opinions, and only the last small amount of people are those who are actually capable of having an open mind and discuss things in a mature manner and learn from other people's views even when they don't match their own. In this kind of a community discussing politics would be just too easy target for a flame war.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by champ3000 View Post
    AKA closed..
    No, it's moved. Suggestions are meant to be posted here. The admins watch this forum as well so they'll definitely notice it.

    Just because you get more responses in GenOT, doesn't mean it's the place to post it.

  7. #7
    Definately no, we (as a community) have proved multiple times that we cannot remain even remotely civil.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    A forum for "controversial views" would be cool. You can't hide from politics, nor should you. It's a pretty important part of everyone's lives.

  9. #9
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    As a mod, here's the argument usually used against political threads/forums, just for clarity's sake.

    Politics is a hot topic. Especially in this day and age, when party views are becoming more and more extreme. It's not unusual to, to use a G.W.Bush example, see one side say that Bush is a traitor for passing laws that breach fundamental rights, and for the other side to say that the first side are traitors for daring to question the President. That happened all the time from 2001-2008 (and I'm not weighing in on either side nor is this the place to do so).

    The issue, from a moderator's point of view, is how do we handle this? This is what news stories are covering, so we can't just label it as "trolling" and deal with it that way, even though it precisely fits pretty much every definition we use. If people get into direct personal attacks, we can label it "flaming" and take action, but there are a lot of ways to be condescending and rude that fit within existing political discourse and don't amount to a direct personal attack. And if we DO start labeling that stuff as "trolling", I absolutely guarantee that we'll be called out, likely by both sides of the debate, for censoring their side. While simultaneously thanking us for preventing the other side from trolling. And not seeing the hypocrisy.

    This is why it's a difficult issue from our perspective. A lot of us LOVE political theory and debate, but a lot of what happens these days has nothing to do with theory and everything to do with yelling louder than everyone else because volume is more powerful than logic and reason. And that's what causes us to have to lock things down more often than we'd like to.


  10. #10
    There are several regulars in political threads that remain very civil, and great discussion is had. I've learned a lot in these threads, even if I don't let it on. I enjoy these political discussions a great deal, and it's often the reason I visit MMO-Champion. I would support a political forum.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2011-08-18 at 08:42 PM.

  11. #11
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    Yeah. We're not supposed to discuss politics because of the arguments it would cause, but really politics is just a nicer way of arguing. I can understand why people wouldn't want to see it, but then I can also see why people would be genuinely interested in discussing this within the MMOC community. I'd support this.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome champ3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As a mod, here's the argument usually used against political threads/forums, just for clarity's sake.

    Politics is a hot topic. Especially in this day and age, when party views are becoming more and more extreme. It's not unusual to, to use a G.W.Bush example, see one side say that Bush is a traitor for passing laws that breach fundamental rights, and for the other side to say that the first side are traitors for daring to question the President. That happened all the time from 2001-2008 (and I'm not weighing in on either side nor is this the place to do so).

    The issue, from a moderator's point of view, is how do we handle this? This is what news stories are covering, so we can't just label it as "trolling" and deal with it that way, even though it precisely fits pretty much every definition we use. If people get into direct personal attacks, we can label it "flaming" and take action, but there are a lot of ways to be condescending and rude that fit within existing political discourse and don't amount to a direct personal attack. And if we DO start labeling that stuff as "trolling", I absolutely guarantee that we'll be called out, likely by both sides of the debate, for censoring their side. While simultaneously thanking us for preventing the other side from trolling. And not seeing the hypocrisy.

    This is why it's a difficult issue from our perspective. A lot of us LOVE political theory and debate, but a lot of what happens these days has nothing to do with theory and everything to do with yelling louder than everyone else because volume is more powerful than logic and reason. And that's what causes us to have to lock things down more often than we'd like to.
    I agree with everything you just said.. It would just be a nice way to get it out of the general off-topic forum... i like to post in the off-topic forum because I don't play wow anymore but love the mmo-c community.. and there are a lot of great post in offtopic that i imagine might get lost in the upcoming elections..

    i just think it would be nice to have one, with a dedicated mod, like say, the class forums, where the people that visited regularly would have the leadership there that we could count on..

    it just seems like different mods may treat threads differently... just my two cents..
    "Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves."
    -Carl Sagan

  13. #13
    Deleted
    i just think it would be nice to have one, with a dedicated mod, like say, the class forums, where the people that visited regularly would have the leadership there that we could count on..

    it just seems like different mods may treat threads differently... just my two cents..
    If a political forum would be created, "a dedicated mod" = impossible. Mods aren't on 100% of the time. We would need multiple mods from all timezones to cover it 24/7. From what I've seen in GenOT, it'll require heavy moderation.

    - MK

  14. #14
    I would like to see one created and I would like to see Endus head it up... I'm just saying.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Powderburn View Post
    I would like to see one created and I would like to see Endus head it up... I'm just saying.
    There would be far more people than Endus who would be able to keep a cool head if you're going to debate, but still stay neutral enough to be able to moderate properly. That's a really tough distinction. It's also hard to find good quality people like I described. You'd be shocked at the time commitment that moderating may take.

  16. #16
    The only real benefit to something like this would be confining all the vitriol to one location and leaving the rest of off-topic as something actually worth looking at again. Speaking for myself I've abandoned off-topic as a whole at this point because things are only going to get more and more heated and, frankly, stupid as election season kicks into full swing.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    There would be far more people than Endus who would be able to keep a cool head if you're going to debate, but still stay neutral enough to be able to moderate properly. That's a really tough distinction. It's also hard to find good quality people like I described. You'd be shocked at the time commitment that moderating may take.
    Yeah, I'm with you. Endus just really seems to know the scholarship behind some of these debates.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Maharishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As a mod, here's the argument usually used against political threads/forums, just for clarity's sake.

    Politics is a hot topic. Especially in this day and age, when party views are becoming more and more extreme. It's not unusual to, to use a G.W.Bush example, see one side say that Bush is a traitor for passing laws that breach fundamental rights, and for the other side to say that the first side are traitors for daring to question the President. That happened all the time from 2001-2008 (and I'm not weighing in on either side nor is this the place to do so).

    The issue, from a moderator's point of view, is how do we handle this? This is what news stories are covering, so we can't just label it as "trolling" and deal with it that way, even though it precisely fits pretty much every definition we use. If people get into direct personal attacks, we can label it "flaming" and take action, but there are a lot of ways to be condescending and rude that fit within existing political discourse and don't amount to a direct personal attack. And if we DO start labeling that stuff as "trolling", I absolutely guarantee that we'll be called out, likely by both sides of the debate, for censoring their side. While simultaneously thanking us for preventing the other side from trolling. And not seeing the hypocrisy.

    This is why it's a difficult issue from our perspective. A lot of us LOVE political theory and debate, but a lot of what happens these days has nothing to do with theory and everything to do with yelling louder than everyone else because volume is more powerful than logic and reason. And that's what causes us to have to lock things down more often than we'd like to.
    My point to this is, how would this be different from how genOT currently operates? There have been increasing amounts of political topics, and none have been closed because they were political. Unless you expect there'll come a time where political threads will be universally locked like religious ones, I don't see how a dedicated forum to help differentiate the topics would make moderation harder.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This is why it's a difficult issue from our perspective. A lot of us LOVE political theory and debate, but a lot of what happens these days has nothing to do with theory and everything to do with yelling louder than everyone else because volume is more powerful than logic and reason. And that's what causes us to have to lock things down more often than we'd like to.
    To be perfectly honest, I don't really see how that's ever any different from how arguments turn out on WoW subjects anyway!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    To be perfectly honest, I don't really see how that's ever any different from how arguments turn out on WoW subjects anyway!
    Usually with wow, even the more heated discussions are born more out of a love of the game and less about hating the other guy. Politics seem to go the other way on this lately.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

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