1. #1

    Baffled Prot Pally looking for advice

    Hey all,

    Not many posts on here but I'm at a bit of a loss. I am decently geared and I believe I know how to tank, but for some reason, even with the recent threat buff, I struggle to hold aggro even in 5 mans. I am using macros for single and multi-target tanking. The multi-target one is:

    /startattack
    /castsequence [mod:alt] Hand of Reckoning; reset=3 Hammer of the Righteous, Judgement, Hammer of the Righteous

    The single target one is the same except substitue CS for HotR. I am using Cons and HW on CD for trash, AS whenever it's up and WoG/Inq/SotR situationally.

    Here is my armory link: (Don't have enough posts but just search for Morcaden on Thaurissan - if someone with higher posts could post a link it would be appreciated)

    Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    don't open with a taunt. it generates 0 threat. you should be opening with sheild frisbie.
    don't put a random taunt into your rotation as it does nothing if your threat is above 100% already othat than puting the taunt on cooldown
    Check you have righteous fury up
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orcaden/simple ?
    gear is fine except reforges as you shouldn't be going to hit you should be going away from hit and expertise idealy 0% hit and 10 expertise(all from glyph)
    it's more likely to be your rotation-> when less than 3 mobs use sheild on one mob and rotate 3 point sheilds between them.
    when more than 3 use inquisition.
    talents you should swap hallowed ground for reckoning as extra melle swings are worth a lot more than consecration damg.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    gear is fine except reforges as you shouldn't be going to hit you should be going away from hit and expertise idealy 0% hit and 10 expertise(all from glyph)
    If he has threat issues, then hit/exp is a good place to start. I'm not going to reply on the macro's since using less buttons makes the game more boring.

  4. #4
    Captain America's shield, hammer of righteous, consecrate. Oh, and put a marks so that each dps doesn't pick their own target.

  5. #5
    Don't worry too much about it. Most DPSers I meet in randoms are stupid and use burst abilities right before my shield even reaches the target. Us prot pallies need time to build up AoE aggro.

    Some tips on randoms:

    1) If you mark a skull, there's a 50% chance they will follow it. If they don't follow it, proceed to point (2).

    2) If that Howling Bad DK / Burst-20K-and-drop-to-13k-sustained Mage / I-Live-to-Swipe Feral Druid / huntard-that-doesn't-MD is still bursting before you even go through 2 GCDs, the best thing to do is to press Escape and let them die. Rinse and repeat for every group until they leave or l2p. Do protect your innoncent healer though, and taunt stuff off them in the process of Operation-Exterminate-the-Idiot-Burst-DPS-ers.

    3) Otherwise, normally I do this: Shield -> (Target mob that wasn't hit by Shield) Hammer -> Inquisition -> Holy Wrath -> Cons -> Hammer.

    With that said I do believe they need to remove Inquisition and factor this into our abilities since I don't get why I need to do so much shit when a feral druid can just faceroll himself into infinite AoE aggro.

    For boss pulls: Avenging Wrath -> Avenger Shield -> Judgement -> PRAY FOR SACRED DUTY PROC -> Shield of Righteous -> Divine Plea -> Shield of Righteous

  6. #6
    Try getting rid of Guarded by the Light talent and put one point in reckoning and theother point in Sacred Duty.

    Divine Plea (for full holy power) -> Inquisition -> Avenging Wrath -> Exorcism -> Avenger's Shield -> Judgement -> then go into your rotation CS/judge/SotR (when at 3 HP).

    Try to also keep Inquisition up as much as possible.


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  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    just to chip in my 2c..

    don't really use a rotation per se, but for AoE
    Hammer on CD > AS on CD or GC proc > Holy Wrath on CD> Cons
    use Inq for finisher if there's more than three mobs, if there's less just use ShoR

    single target ShoR>CS>Judge>AS>HoW>HW.

    recently I've taken to using Inq even on single target, and only using ShoR when I have Inq and Sacred Duty up, getting some decent numbers but I'm not sold on it, as to work properly you need no lag, or misses or anything, which NEVER happens
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  8. #8
    Your macros are all wrong. Frankly you shouldn't be using a macro, but even if you feel the need to it's still off. Your problem will primarily be ability usage.

    A good general guide is here: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=4&t=31912
    Anything stickied on that site can generally be regarded as semi-biblical.

    Our actual rotation is a priority system (from most important to least important):

    Single target: 3 point Shield of the Righteous > Avengers Shield proc > Crusader Strike > Avengers Shield non-proc > Judgement > Holy Wrath (= Consecrate)

    You can leave out the last two, consecrate in particular is likely to drive you OOM. I highly recommend using Ascetic Crusader as a major glyph as it substantially reduces mana issues.

    Multi-target: 3 point Inquisition > Hammer > Avengers Shield > Consecrate > Holy Wrath > Judgement

    But you'll probably need to slip in judgement early occasionally otherwise you may well go oom.

    For learning purposes, I'd recommend ignoring Inquisition & always using Shield of the Righteous as your finisher. If you're in an AOE situation just cast it on a different mob each time to spread the lovin' around. For learning purposes you could also ignore using Crusader Strike in favour of always using Hammer of the Righteous - CS will be better single target threat, but Hammer isn't horribly far behind & it means your single target and 2+ target rotations become close to identical.

    So the simple version of your ability pattern will go:

    Hammer (multi) or Crusader Strike (single) -> Filler ability (in order of preference: avenger's shield, judgement, holy wrath) -> repeat till you've got 3 holy power

    Once you have three holy power, Shield of the Righteous.

    It's all about building the holy power to your big-hitting finisher ASAP - hence proc'd Avenger's Shield and Crusader Strike or Hammer are what you're really worried about. Everything else is just something to do while you're waiting to build holy power to use on your finisher. Don't bother with 1 or 2 point finishers, save it for a 3 pointer - you want to thump them, not tickle them & if you look at the ability description you'll notice that the damage doesn't scale up evenly.

    Oh, and spec wise, I'd recommend using this:

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRddRRucbr

    Sacred Duty is a must have - like I said, boosting up the finisher is key. Reckoning is great threat. Hallowed ground is pretty mediocre threat. Guarded by the Light is optional but nice, ditto Divine Guardian. I'd regard the rest of the prot tree as basically spent on must-haves.

    In retri you can have your choice of 3/3 Rule of Law (excellent threat, better than most of the option points in the prot tree but awkward to spare full point for) or 2/3 RoL + 2/2 Pursuit of Justice. I feel you can't put a price on moving faster, so i go with 2/3 RoL & 2/2 PoJ personally.

    Your glyphs are solid.

    From a mitigation PoV you should be prioritising mastery, not dodge. If you really feel the need for threat, getting expertise soft capped (26) is better threat than getting hit capped. Expertise reduces your chance to be dodged & parried, whereas hit just reduces your chance to be missed - therefore expertise is roughly twice as good (not quite true given that spells can't be dodged/parried, but a good rough explanation given that about 2/3rds or more of your threat generation abilities are non-spells).

    Oh, and Askmrrobot is actually quite good as a reforging guide for prot pallys. By default he works of total damage reduction rather than a full CTC approach, and personally I'd reduce all the weighting of threat stats to 0 (and strength to 0.28x parry weight to represent only its contribution to parry), but obviously that advice isn't really applicable if you're having issues with threat.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2011-08-22 at 06:59 PM.

  9. #9
    dont use consecrate its for bads only. that and ret aura. consecrate does at the most 800 damage per second when talented. my hammer will swing for around 2000 dmg x however many targets infront of it every 3 seconds.. (oh and when vengeance stacks with 3/3 rule of the law ill have 12k hammers)

    anyway
    open with avenger shield-> hammer of righteous-> judgement-> Hammer of righteous again
    always use AS when it procs
    use inquisition if u need to but with the new threat change. whatever u hit first, u keep

    the build above is nice just remove a point from Guarded by the light and max out 3/3 rule of the law.
    Last edited by announced; 2011-08-23 at 06:48 AM.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome
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    Basically don't use macros, if you wanna play properly, you need bind your abilities and focus on your rotation. What lakhesis said should do the thing for you.
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  11. #11
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    dont use consecrate its for bads only. that and ret aura. consecrate does at the most 800 damage per second when talented. my hammer will swing for around 2000 dmg x however many targets infront of it every 3 seconds.. (oh and when vengeance stacks with 3/3 rule of the law ill have 12k hammers)
    Consecrate is most certainly not 'for bads', it's just situational. That 600-800 DPS on everything around you is a massive amount of AoE threat for one GCD. At worst, use it once to establish your AoE threat lead, because HotR will maintain it. If the AoE pack you're on is melee, you can use it on CD thanks to the mana returns from dodging and blocking.

    @OP:
    Using a taunt macro of some kind isn't a bad idea. Just don't tie it to one of your primary damage abilities. As Viglante said, don't pull with a taunt either. Taunts set your threat on the target to 101% of their current target, and if they have no current target...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitsurugi View Post
    Consecrate is most certainly not 'for bads', it's just situational. That 600-800 DPS on everything around you is a massive amount of AoE threat for one GCD. At worst, use it once to establish your AoE threat lead, because HotR will maintain it. If the AoE pack you're on is melee, you can use it on CD thanks to the mana returns from dodging and blocking....
    i dont know whether to laugh or shake my head.

    consecrate takes a few seconds to tick before it actually starts doing damage. thats fine of course cause by the time it actually starts working you could have pulled way more threat with a single hammer. brilliant aoe threat lead, really smart

    also if ur aoe pack does move atleast consecrate moves with you (o wait it doesnt)

    assuming u dont spec into failed ground (god i hope u dont) consecrate will take about 50-70% of ur mana for the very small return it does. leaving u very little mana left when your using seal of truth.

    start ur aoe rotation with divine plea-> inqusition-> avengers shield-> hammer of righteous-> judgement-> hammer (or AS if it procs) then just repeat with hammer judgement or AS.

    u can tab target with seal of truth and hit a few different ones to get dots going on all of them for even more threat ( i do this jus because it helps the dungeon go faster in ZA)

  13. #13
    Warchief Eurytos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    i dont know whether to laugh or shake my head.

    consecrate takes a few seconds to tick before it actually starts doing damage. thats fine of course cause by the time it actually starts working you could have pulled way more threat with a single hammer. brilliant aoe threat lead, really smart

    also if ur aoe pack does move atleast consecrate moves with you (o wait it doesnt)

    assuming u dont spec into failed ground (god i hope u dont) consecrate will take about 50-70% of ur mana for the very small return it does. leaving u very little mana left when your using seal of truth.

    start ur aoe rotation with divine plea-> inqusition-> avengers shield-> hammer of righteous-> judgement-> hammer (or AS if it procs) then just repeat with hammer judgement or AS.

    u can tab target with seal of truth and hit a few different ones to get dots going on all of them for even more threat ( i do this jus because it helps the dungeon go faster in ZA)
    why do you insist consecration is for bads? sure its not the first thing to use in your rotation to grab aggro, but using it doesnt make you bad. if a mob will take the full dmg of consecration, its worth the cd. if multiple mobs will take the full duration its that much better.

    to say using consecration is "for bads" is plainly wrong.
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  14. #14
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    consecrate takes a few seconds to tick before it actually starts doing damage. thats fine of course cause by the time it actually starts working you could have pulled way more threat with a single hammer. brilliant aoe threat lead, really smart
    Not really sure where you get that idea. It ticks every second for the duration, from when you use it. There's no delay to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    also if ur aoe pack does move atleast consecrate moves with you (o wait it doesnt)
    My apologies, I didn't think that I would have to indicate that you should be smart about where and when to use Consecrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    assuming u dont spec into failed ground (god i hope u dont) consecrate will take about 50-70% of ur mana for the very small return it does. leaving u very little mana left when your using seal of truth.
    It's 55% of your base mana to cast, which should never be a problem if you use Judgment on CD along with the mana returns from the Sanctuary talent. The talent isn't great, I agree, but depending on your build you need to put a point in it to get higher in the talent tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    start ur aoe rotation with divine plea-> inqusition-> avengers shield-> hammer of righteous-> judgement-> hammer (or AS if it procs) then just repeat with hammer judgement or AS.

    u can tab target with seal of truth and hit a few different ones to get dots going on all of them for even more threat ( i do this jus because it helps the dungeon go faster in ZA)
    Solid advice. Use Holy Wrath for those rare occasions when Judgment and AS are on CD, or if you're fighting undead/demons/elementals/dragonkin.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    why do you insist consecration is for bads? sure its not the first thing to use in your rotation to grab aggro, but using it doesnt make you bad. if a mob will take the full dmg of consecration, its worth the cd. if multiple mobs will take the full duration its that much better.

    to say using consecration is "for bads" is plainly wrong.
    i went on my pally and double checked the dmg of it. its actually way less than i thought. 4500 dmg over 10 seconds.. which is a measily 450 dmg every second. does that sound like a lot? no.
    My hammer of righteous hits a min of 2000 x however many targets are infront of it without any vengeance. when im stacked at 12.7k extra ap.. it hits around 12-14k x however many targets.. much more effective.

    my point is the dmg of consecration is so laughably low that its a waste of mana to even use it. using seal of truth(like most pallys do) means you WONT gain mana back as fast as you think. even blocking attacks in a mob of 5-6 you only gain around 3% per block. judgement helps a bit more but not as much.

    you'd do well to build more threat simply with As-> HoR-> judgement-> hor-> AS if procs-> inq at 3 HP-> As-> hor.

    i dont even have consecration binded its so useless.

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