Disc Problem

[Deleted]

Hello , i m a relitivly new disc healing and i have a question on how much healing should a disc priest be putting out .
we started raiding firelands yesterday and we have 4 bosses down .. im healing with a holy palla and a resto druid both over 370 , im currently 367.
i havent got any logs to show but during raid bosses im doing on average 11 to 13 k HPS but looking at the meters both holy and druid are pulling serveral million heals above me ie .. holy palla 21 k hps ( 4.5mil healed ) .. REsto druid 15 k hps ( 3.19 mil healed ) me 18 k HPS ( 2.39 million Healed )
is it expected for a disc priest to have a low Healing figure compaired to the other two or is there a problem . im using all the correct healing spells ie bubble for rapture penance and POH POM etc .

heres my armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emara/advanced

sorry if this information is a bit lacking but any advice would be greatfuly recieved

[Verth Aeyta]

Depends on the fight really, if you had some logs people would be able to help you a bit better but I know on fights like Beth and Rhyo I tend to have less output because of my assigned duties, but if you're doing Domo and you're at least not putting out as much as the druid and pally then you might be doing something wrong, can't say for certain without seeing what you're doing.

[zakaluka]

If your pally and druid are abusing the right mechanics, you probably won't catch up to them. HOWEVER - you should always be right on the BRINK of catching up to them, not outparsed by so much. Hpally is obviously abusing his holy power mechanics. Druid would be higher if he was abusing his mana returns a bit more.

Your raid is taking way too much damage! What fight do your healers need to average 18k on? Not a one (edit: only bale). Even on domo average healer hps should be lower. ~16k if your execution is good, only higher if you're pushing scorpion to >10 stacks of adrenaline - which you can only make a good case for if you're in HM, even then it's not necessarily a good thing to do.

Typically we would see Druid+Hpala tied on HPS, with priest lagging very slightly behind (~1k or so if you have very good timing).

Are the numbers you posted from Recount? Are you aware of why you can't trust the numbers from Recount? IE: absorbs are guessed, and recount obtains HPS from activity time not fight length. If your pala isn't playing his class optimally he might have low activity time; this would inflate his numbers.

Skada gives a much more accurate HPS figure, but WoL is the best way.

We need logs to really know what your problem is, though. Also, your armory has your shadow set saved, please log out in disc so we can see your stats

So, ways to close the gap? There are many. I'll edit some in here when I have a moment.

[Deleted]

yeah i know sorry for that ... il try and get some next week ... im currently going for a haste build is this a good way to go ?

---------- Post added 2011-08-22 at 09:56 PM ----------

yeah there recount figures would u recomend skada ?

[zakaluka]

Use skada for HPS, and be sure you understand why.

Also never include Bale as part of any figure you're posting. Druids typically fall behind on that fight, hpallys typically do insanely well. It's also just going to give you an abnormally high hps figure, so best not to use it in any kind of overall performance context.

Haste build is usually the best, but it depends on a lot of things. For one, the moment you start having mana problems you should probably start adding mastery or spirit. If you're tank healing (but you aren't) a mixed mast/crit build might be extremely good for you. It depends.

[Deleted]

ok thanks for what info you have given me so far i appriciate it

[Deleted]

Are the numbers you posted from Recount? Are you aware of why you can't trust the numbers from Recount? IE: absorbs are guessed

That'd... be interesting. The combat log clearly shows how much a shield absorbs:

7/25 19:35:11.986  SPELL_MISSED,0xF130CD2C000034C9,"ATTACKER",0xa48,0x0,0x0300000002442F1A,"TARGET",0x512,0x0,98471,"ATTACK NAME",0x4,ABSORB,13606

I.e. in the above case a straight 13,606 damage absorbed. No guesses there.

It also shows how much, if any, the shield absorbed when it fell off:

7/25 19:35:14.031  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0300000002F3CE1D,"CASTER ORIGIN",0x514,0x0,0x0300000000DB98A4,"TARGET",0x512,0x4,17,"Power Word: Shield",0x2,BUFF,15992,0,0

15,992 absorbed by the shield when it was removed.

It's very easy for addons to keep track of these numbers, even if they're not 100% in real time until the fight ends and a catch-up has been done (Skada/recount will still update after combat ends for this reason).

[xenoz]

Don't overlook the fact that Disc healing is designed mainly as a single point quick-massive heal, while Holy priests, and druids are designed for area heals intended to be less massive, but supremely effective in raids.

In other words, you're intended mainly for Tank/OT/and spot healing, and you will almost never do as much overall healing as the others. In fact, if you do, it means you're over healing, or your raid healer is slacking.

[Jantasir]

Hello , i m a relitivly new disc healing and i have a question on how much healing should a disc priest be putting out .
we started raiding firelands yesterday and we have 4 bosses down .. im healing with a holy palla and a resto druid both over 370 , im currently 367.
i havent got any logs to show but during raid bosses im doing on average 11 to 13 k HPS but looking at the meters both holy and druid are pulling serveral million heals above me ie .. holy palla 21 k hps ( 4.5mil healed ) .. REsto druid 15 k hps ( 3.19 mil healed ) me 18 k HPS ( 2.39 million Healed )
is it expected for a disc priest to have a low Healing figure compaired to the other two or is there a problem . im using all the correct healing spells ie bubble for rapture penance and POH POM etc .

heres my armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emara/advanced

sorry if this information is a bit lacking but any advice would be greatfuly recieved

is that including your shields? i find that skada is one of the better meters for tracking them.

[Bobica]

Sometimes I heal 10men raids in that composition. Our reports are fairly the same overall, but my gear is slightly better. IMO, druids and paladins aren't that gear dependable as disc priest is - average druid or pala will manage to have better performance than average disc on the same ilvl.

Reports aren't important so much if you are killing bosses anyways. But you should think of your role as a 'filler healer': healing gaps and shielding stuff to let your druid's hots start kicking on raid, or help pally in between heals on tanks. On some fights like Shannox (hc version) I'm on those focused by Rageface as well as helping on tanks, always topping both on hps and healing done. As someone already mentioned, it really depends on a fight. Plus, as disc you will always have less overhealing than both other classes (gotta love dat shield!).

I find haste a bit more suitable than mastery for 10m. Your primary mana regen is from Rapture. Therefore, you should replace Jar with Alchemist stone. Also consider taking Inspiration instead of Surge of Light (if you are healing tanks), and if you have mana problems, maybe try to relocate some of your talents to Veiled Shadows. It works well for me. For fights like Beth, Alys and Majordomo, I think it's better to have PW: Barrirer glyph instead of PW: Shield. It's not as effective as for 25m, but helps on aoe healing.

[zakaluka]

you're intended mainly for Tank/OT/and spot healing, and you will almost never do as much overall healing as the others. In fact, if you do, it means you're over healing, or your raid healer is slacking.

o.O

disc is quite capable of keeping up on the healing meters during aoe spam.
Sure the main RH will spike higher but your baseline will be higher.
Disc only for spot/tank? hm. My overall throughput went up at least 2k the moment I put on disc and my role didn't change one bit. Still 40% of my healing is PoH.


---------- Post added 2011-08-22 at 08:38 PM ----------

That'd... be interesting. The combat log clearly shows how much a shield absorbs

Okay, so blizz finally eliminated guesswork from absorbs. Super, my bad - meters have had to guess absorbs since the beginning of time. Learn something new every day. Recount still bases your HPS on activity time, which is 100% utterly wrong. For a class that NEEDS to have lower than 100% activity, basing HPS on anything but fight duration will be pretty misleading, yes?

When recount tells you you're healing 19k hps and skada says 16, believe skada and then ask yourself why your activity time is <85%

[Deleted]

About disc raid healing...

This is from majordomo (normal). It's a wipe, but had the most visible high spikes of the tries.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=881&e=1128

As you can se, there are a few 40-50k HPS spikes during the scorpion phase.

Here's the kill
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1826&e=2271


Btw, the paladin we pugged that night was pretty terrible and got replaced after a few tries on raggy :P

[babylon]

as for meters, i use recount and it shows pretty much the same what is on our wol logs after fight. on the other hand one person in my raid uses skada and usually has very different results on it. anyway i really recommend recording and uploading logs, it helps a lot.

when you do that be sure to compare overhealing (dashboard -> analyze -> healing done) and if your happens to be higher than other healers, check which of your spells overheal that much. wihout logs one can only be guessing why you struggle to keep up with other healers.

surge of light, ew, but thats only my personal opinion

[Pottsy710]

i'm of the opinion that healing meters never matter so long as the raid stays alive... sometimes higher hps just means that a healer is using less efficient/quicker heals in order to pad the meter... if people are consistently dying to a mechanic that is designed to be healed through, THAT'S when you go look at the meters to see if there is a healer slacking...

i run 25s, and rarely will i ever keep up with either of our resto druids mainly because their raid cooldown is pure throughput....

[Deleted]

if people are consistently dying to a mechanic that is designed to be healed through, THAT'S when you go look at the meters to see if there is a healer slacking...

Like on majordomo scorpion phase. ^^ That's a pure numbers fight/gearcheck pretty much.

[Pottsy710]

Like on majordomo scorpion phase. ^^ That's a pure numbers fight/gearcheck pretty much.

even then there can be other contributing factors to player deaths... i.e. moving out too early to blow up... not healthstoning after the explosion... not getting out far enough and using up the DK's AMZ... etc...

but healing meters aren't as indicative of healer performance as dps meters are for damage dealers... just my 2c...

[zakaluka]

Btw, the paladin we pugged that night was pretty terrible and got replaced after a few tries on raggy :P

Majordomo, 12% LoD? We'd have replaced him right after domo. Our Hpally makes me work hard to keep up with his spike AoE. LoD firing like a machine gun. And his is smart, mine is dumb ><

Pretty nice carry, though. I've had a couple parses like that, but I came to realize that when you parse insanely well it's because someone else is dropping the ball

[Deleted]

Pretty nice carry, though. I've had a couple parses like that, but I came to realize that when you parse insanely well it's because someone else is dropping the ball

Indeed, hehe :P

[Mikayo]

Don't overlook the fact that Disc healing is designed mainly as a single point quick-massive heal, while Holy priests, and druids are designed for area heals intended to be less massive, but supremely effective in raids.

In other words, you're intended mainly for Tank/OT/and spot healing, and you will almost never do as much overall healing as the others. In fact, if you do, it means you're over healing, or your raid healer is slacking.

As disc I do everything. I single-target/tank heal and I heal the raid. I don't agree that disc priests will never do as much overall healing as the others either, I consistently do more overall healing than our other healers (less often do I do more than our druids, but it does happen.) Am I overhealing? Perhaps, but I manage my mana and I am not going oom.

(ps. meters are a convenient tool that allow us to gauge performance but they ultimately don't mean @#$%)

[Pottsy710]

i rarely outheal our druids/holy paladins in terms of actual healing done, at least on recount, but the hps are similar...