1. #1

    Legion Mechanic Testing

    Mod disclaimer: this thread has been made for the SOLE purpose of discussing the Legion new mechanics and testing them. To keep the discussion clean and on topic, strict moderation will be applied, removing unnecessary/offtopic posts. Check what you're going to say before posting and ask other people if in doubt.


    Its that time again, Legion has a ton of mechanics that need to be tested so lets get testing.

    How this thread works:
    Bold questions are considered unanswered or incompletely answered at all.
    Answered questions in Black have been answered during the most recent build.
    Answered questions in Red were answered during a previous build and may need to be rechecked.

    How to answer a question:
    -Provide logs, video or screenshot evidence with appropriate analysis as needed showing an answer. For relatively simple mechanics that can be tested easily I will accept assertions without evidence but this is only for the most trivially tested mechanics.
    -If you disagree with a currently accepted answer please provide counter evidence in the form of the above.
    -Remember tooltips lie.

    This is list of questions I think are relevant, if you think I've missed something let me know.

    Assassination
    Questions added when the spec is actually available for testing

    Outlaw
    1) Is combat potency formula proc chance still 20*(OH speed/1.4) percent?
    2) How does Roll the Bones work?
    Buffs can proc in groups of 1,2, and 5 with 67.5%, 23.1%, and 9.2% respectively. Buffs do not cycle and all buff groups are equally likely.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post38989719
    3) Which damage sources are mirrored by Blade Flurry
    4) Which damage sources does Ghostly Strike impact?
    5) How do 6 combo point finishers interact with Ruthlessness?
    6) Does Alacrity proc off all finishers?
    7) Is DfA animation time still 1 second?
    8) How does Curse of the Dreadblades interact with Anticipation and Deeper Strategem?
    Fills up to maximum combo points, 6 for DS, 8 for anticipation.

    9) Does Hidden Blade gurantee a Saber Slash proc or just a second strike?
    10) What are the proc mechanics of Greed? (Spell data says 35%)
    11) How does Blurred Time work?
    For the duration of AR every CD impacted goes to 60% duration. Once AR ends all CDs revert to normal cooldown based on the percent of time that has passed. This means a CD during AR is reduced by at most 10 seconds.
    Example: Marked for Death has 50 seconds left on its 60 second cooldown, when AR is cast that becomes 30 seconds left on a 36 second cooldown. When AR ends MFD will have 15 seconds left on its 36 second cooldown or 41.67% of cooldown remaining, so MfD will return to 25 seconds remaining on a 60 second cooldown.
    12) What abilities does Blurred Time impact?
    List here to avoid cluttering up the thread: http://pastebin.com/sq4Lngiw

    13) How does Blunderbuss work?

    Subtlety
    1) How many abilities can be used inside a single Dance?
    3
    2) How does Shadow Techniques work?
    0% chance to proc on the first and second melee swing after a proc, 100% chance to proc on swings 3-5, average of 4 swing interval.
    3) Do additional combo points from Shadow Blades stack with all cp source modifiers?
    4) Does Master of Shadows proc on dance?
    Yes

    5) Does Master of Sublety proc on dance?
    Yes

    6) Do weaponmaster procs grant additional combo points from backstab/gloomblade/shuriken storm?
    Yes

    7) Do weaponmaster procs apply multiple stacks of alacrity?
    No

    8) Can weaponmaster procs proc deepening shadows?
    9) Do all damage modifiers that apply to backstab apply to gloomblade?
    10) Does Nightstalker apply to dance?
    Yes
    11) Does Subterfuge apply to dance?
    No

    12) Does Shadow Focus apply to dance?
    Yes
    13) Does Deepening Shadows scale to 6 cp finishers?
    Yes

    14) Does Alacrity proc off all finishers?
    15) Does Enveloping Shadows scale with mastery?
    16) How does Enveloping Shadows Pandemic?
    Partial tick from pandemic always provides a combo point

    17) Does Relentless Strikes proc on dance?
    Yes
    18) What are the proc mechenics of Withering Bite combo points?
    10% proc chance, no ICD.
    19) How does Fortune's Bite change ShT proc chance?
    It doesn't
    20) Does Shadow Nova apply to dance?
    21) Does Faster than Light require movement?
    22) How does Akaari's soul work?
    23) What is second shuriken proc rate?
    24) Do second shuriken proc provide combo points?
    25) How does finality change finishers?
    Last edited by fierydemise; 2016-02-26 at 02:43 PM.
    Fierydemise-ShaowCraft Engine Guy
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)
    Rogue IRC: #Ravenholdt on Quakenet

  2. #2
    Doesn't Enveloping Shadows scale with mastery by virtue of the fact that the CP it generates will be spent on other finishers and those finishers scale with mastery?

    Edit, hmmm:

    Let T denote total throughput, B denote damage from builders, P denote damage from white hits and passive procs, F denote damage from damaging finishers (Evisc, NB, DFA)

    Let M denote mastery.

    T = P + B + F

    dT/dM = dF/dM.

    Let E = proportional increase in combo points spent on damaging finishers when running EnvSh.

    Then when running EnvSh you have T = P + B + E*F and dT/dM = dE/dM * F + E * dF/dM.

    And you are asking, if I understand correctly, whether or not dE/dM = 0? I believe it would be, but even in that case you still have dT/dM = E*dF/dM (with EnvSh) vs. dT/dM = dF/dM (no EnvSh).

    So what you are really asking is does EnvSh double dip on Mastery or does it scale only linearly with mastery by virtue of generating more CP which themselves scale with mastery?
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2016-02-25 at 01:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    Doesn't Enveloping Shadows scale with mastery by virtue of the fact that the CP it generates will be spent on other finishers and those finishers scale with mastery?
    At a conceptual level yeah ES does scale with mastery, but for this thread I don't really care about conceptual. We want to know, mechanically, does mastery change how ES functions for the purposes of building models and simulators.
    Fierydemise-ShaowCraft Engine Guy
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)
    Rogue IRC: #Ravenholdt on Quakenet

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    At a conceptual level yeah ES does scale with mastery, but for this thread I don't really care about conceptual. We want to know, mechanically, does mastery change how ES functions for the purposes of building models and simulators.
    I would be shocked if it does, but I guess there's a reason you do the experiment...

    If it does it would create all kinds of nastiness with mastery breakpoints... yuck!

    In fact, to test it you would need two sets of gear with a very large difference in mastery, as a small difference would be well below the breakpoint.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2016-02-25 at 01:40 PM.

  5. #5
    Roll The Bones:
    This is one of the weirder mechanics I've ever seen but best guess about what is happening.

    You can consider RtB as rolling 5 d6, exactly as the animation shows (thanks to Kolzane in #ravenholdt for figuring this out). The buffs you get depend on these 5 dice rolls. In general you get a buff for the largest group (or groups) of the same side. To make this clear assume the sides are letters a-f.

    [a,b,c,d,e], [a,c,d,e,f], [b,c,d,e,f], etc. would give you all 5 buffs you rolled since the largest group size is 1.
    [a,a,b,b,c] would give you buffs a and b since the largest group size is 2.
    [a,a,a,b,b], [a,a,a,a,b], [a,a,b,c,d], etc. would give you only buff a.
    This explains why in testing you only see groups of 1,2, and 5 buffs.

    Rather than doing the math ourselves we can simply consult this helpful website of Yahtzee probabilities:
    http://www.datagenetics.com/blog/january42012/

    So we expect a 67.5% chance of 1 buff, 23.1% chance of 2 buffs, 9.2% chance of 5 buffs.

    Lorentz logged 731 finishers (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...wJ/#type=auras, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...GtV#type=auras) and analyzed the frequencies:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/uke8cfbw0v...ting.xlsx?dl=0

    This testing yielded 68.81% 1 buff, 23.8% 2 buffs, and 7.39% 5 buffs. These values are close enough to the expected that I am comfortable provisionally saying this is RtB's mechanic.
    Last edited by fierydemise; 2016-02-26 at 05:06 PM.
    Fierydemise-ShaowCraft Engine Guy
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)
    Rogue IRC: #Ravenholdt on Quakenet

  6. #6
    20) Does Shadow Nova apply to dance?
    Yes - both expired and canceled Logs

    25) How does finality change finishers?
    The entire trait seems a bit unfinished and inconsistent, essentially casting a Evis/Nightblade/Kidney gives you a buff that replaces you regular ability with an entirely new ability, for example http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=1973...ity-eviscerate

    more observations:
    - Finality for every finisher has separate buff, they don’t overwrite each other,
    the buffs in question are Eviscerate Override, Nightblade Override and Kidney Shot Override.
    - Said Buffs last 30 seconds and replace your regular ability with its “Finality” version
    - Finality: Kidney Shot has same effects as regular Kidney Shot and shares cooldown with it, casting F:KS doesn’t consume the Override buff
    - Finality: Nightblade does increased damage compared to Nightblade, the F: N debuff on target overwrites regular Nightblade Debuff and doesn’t pandemic with it
    - In addition Nightblade Override buff gets applied when Nightblade is cast or when regular Nightblade ticks on any target
    - Nightblade Override is consumed when F:N is cast
    - Finality: Eviscerate does increased damage compared to Eviscerate, casting it does not consume Eviscerate Override buff
    - Death from Above behaves same way as Eviscerate, applies Eviscerate Override buff if cast when it’s not up, if Eviscerate Override is up, the Evisc part of DFA is "Finality:Eviscerate" -> hits harder, does not consume EO buff.
    - Override buffs get applied regardless of the amount of CPs used for the finisher
    Logs
    Logs with weaponmaster
    Rogue, Drive, Ravencrest EU

  7. #7
    "1) Is combat potency formula proc chance still 20*(OH speed/1.4) percent?"
    (and MG only uses the base 20% chance?)

    Procedure:
    Naked 100 Blood Elf vs 85 Training Dummy, 17.6% mastery, 16% crit, no buffs at all.
    I used feint as an energy drain to ensure that all combat potency procs were recorded. All attacks are autoattacks.

    With dual 1.8 daggers,
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ry&view=events

    observed:
    1087 melee attacks (543.5 offhand)
    89 MG attacks
    3465 energy from CP (231 cp procs)

    expected:
    139.7 melee CPs
    17.8 MG CP
    157.5 total CP

    The formula only accounts for 68.2% of observed CP procs.

    With 2.6 weapons,
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=1

    observed:
    1372 melee attacks (686 offhand)
    129 MG attacks
    6345 energy from CP (423 procs)

    expected:
    254.8 melee cp
    25.8 mg cp
    280.6 total cp

    The formula only accounts for 66.3% of observed CP.

    However, if CP has a base chance of 30%,

    1.8 speed test is 236.3 (102% of observed CP)
    2.6 speed test is 420.9 (99.5% of observed CP)

    I believe the correct formula for combat potency to be .3 * (offhand speed / 1.4).
    (and MG has a flat 30% chance to proc CP.)
    Last edited by wavefunctionp; 2016-02-29 at 08:38 AM.

  8. #8
    6) Does Alacrity proc off all finishers? (Outlaw only right now.)

    Alacrity procs off of Run Through, Between the Eyes, Slice and Dice and Death from Above.

    Death from Above is currently doing it's old multiproc bug from wod beta of proccing alacrity at the rate of (2 + #ofInitialDamageTargets).

    Alacrity does not proc off of Roll the Bones or any of it's co-auras.

    - - - Updated - - -

    3) Which damage sources are mirrored by Blade Flurry

    Melee (main and offhand), Main Gauche, Pistol Shot, Saber Slash, Run Through, Between the Eyes, Killing Spree, Death From Above's Run Through, Swordmaster's Saber Slash, and Ghostly Strike can all proc Blade Flurry.

    Notably absent are Death from Above's direct damage, Cannonball Barrage and Reposte.

    Untested: Greed, Blunderbuss.

    Interesting note: Reposte doesn't proc Blade Flurry, but it can proc Main Gauche which can proc Blade Flurry.
    Last edited by wavefunctionp; 2016-03-02 at 08:59 AM.

  9. #9
    4) Which damage sources does Ghostly Strike impact?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GvyKwM74mCAgDVTq/

    It's a debuff on the target aptly named Ghostly Strike.

    It applies to Melee (main and offhand), Ghostly Strike (does not apply to the initial hit), Saber Slash (and proc'd saber slash), and Killing Spree.

    Notably, it does not appear to buff Main Gauche (or proc it), Run Through, Pistol Shot, Between the Eyes, or Death from Above (initial damage or Run Through).

    Cannonball Barrage is in the logs. I don't know if it is enough of a sample since it is random damage. (Screw that noise.) But if someone is feeling bored, they can try to figure out if it benefits.

    Untested: Greed, Blunderbuss, Riposte.

    Notes about the logs. You'll see a lot of inconsistency with Death from Above. Death from Above's initial damage scales with CP. ALL OF THEM. If you have anticipation, it will count all the way up to the full 8, which accounts for why some do up to 160% damage, and it comes in intervals of +20% damage.

    http://imgur.com/i9Z4egW
    Last edited by wavefunctionp; 2016-03-02 at 08:47 AM.
    Aeriwen - Hyjal-US

  10. #10
    Logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Outlaw
    10) What are the proc mechanics of Greed? (Spell data says 35%)
    • Expected proc chance - 35%. Testing yielded 32.5% which is close enough.
    • Greed does 2 instances of damage - main hand and off hand - for each enemy. In-game tooltip matches formula 100% + 100% normalized weapon damage, but actual damage from logs slightly(~5%) higher for unknown reasons. Maybe formula is 105% + 105% and it's a simple mistake since Wowhead suggests 150%+ 150%.
    • Greed does benefit from Critical Strike and Versatility.
    • Even tho damage is Physical it bypasses armor.
    • Does not scale with combo points used - 1 or 5 it's still the same damage.

    For Greed damage investigation, my character stats:
    AP = 26 282
    Versatility = 21.96%

    Expected main hand damage min - 1 297 + (26 282/3.5) * 2.4 = 19 319
    Expected main hand damage max - 2 410 + (26 282/3.5) * 2.4 = 20 432
    Expected main hand damage avg - 19 875
    Expected both hands damage avg - 29 813
    Expected both hands damage avg with versatility - 36 360
    In-game tooltip - 36 358

    Logs main hand damage average - 25 509
    Logs off hand damage average - 12 733
    Logs both hands damage average - 38 242(5.2% higher than expected)

    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    13) How does Blunderbuss work?
    • Proc chance. Testing yielded 34.8% so I assume actual chance is 35%.
    • Blunderbuss does 7 instances of damage each of them is 30% AP. So overall it's 210% AP compared to 100% of Pistol Shot.
    • Does benefit from Critical Strike and Versatility. Also Gunslinger Artifact Trait works with Blundersbuss.
    • Damage is mitigated by armor
    • It's hard to test but it seems Blunderbuss and Pistol Shot can override each other. So if we have Opportunity buff and get another proc, Pistol Shot can turn into Blunderbuss and vice versa.
    Last edited by Lorentz; 2016-03-06 at 05:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Poison Bomb

    Logs

    Results:
    • Formula for 1 tick is Tick_Damage = 2 * AP * 1.17 * (1 + Versatility), where 1.17 is an Assassin's Resolve damage modifier
    • Crit chance seems to be around 5%
    • No Mastery scaling
    • Surge of Toxins does not affect Bomb's damage
    • Damage does not scale with Combo Points

    Thanks to Kolzane in #ravenholdt for testing this ability.
    Last edited by Lorentz; 2016-03-16 at 06:24 AM.

  12. #12
    Follow up - Poison Bomb ticks shrink with Haste thus creating breakpoints when additional tick happens. Damage per tick stays the same.

    Logs

    Base time - 6 ticks each second.
    So breakpoints:
    7 ticks - 16.(6)% Haste
    8 ticks - 33.(3)% Haste
    9 ticks - 50% Haste
    etc.

  13. #13
    Don't have time to test myself at the moment, so I would like to add 2 questions to the fold.

    1) What's the pandemic refresh treshold for Enveloping Shadows, Nightblade, Envenom, Rupture, SnD/RtB? Where is it based on CPs used and where on the 5 CP duration?

    2) How does the above mentioned change when using Deeper Stratagem/Anticipation?(Possible bugs with Anticipation - some finishers used to work with 8 CPs)
    Rogue, Drive, Ravencrest EU


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •