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  1. #21
    Looking through the Macroes, it says
    /cast Roar of Recovery (Tenacity pet, might not want to use this with Rapid Fire.)
    Tho it is Cunning pets that got roar of recovery ^_~
    Great guide btw =)

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  2. #22
    Great guide, updated stickies is what we needed!
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  3. #23
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    Awesome Guide! found this very useful! Thanks alot!!

  4. #24
    Quick question, does Arcane Shot or Aimed Shot scale better with gear?
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Great guide, updated stickies is what we needed!
    Absolutely. I'm so glad people stepped up to write such good guides

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Quick question, does Arcane Shot or Aimed Shot scale better with gear?
    All our stuff scales with gear of course.

    Aimed Shot is 160% ranged weapon damage plus (RAP * 0.724)+776. I just checked my Character stats, and I have 16595 RAP, meaning it would be (16595 * 0.724)+776. = 12790.78, so basically 160% of your weapon damage + 12790 damage.

    Arcane shot is 100% weapon damage plus (RAP * 0.0483)+289 as Arcane damage. Meaning it would be (16595*0.0483) + 289 = 1090.5385, i.e 100% weapon damage plus 1090 dmg. Not sure how the 12% glyph dmg scales with this, though.


    If you go to wowhead.com and search on the different spell names, you'll see the above information.


    Tho it is Cunning pets that got roar of recovery ^_~
    Great guide btw =)
    Fix'd!
    Last edited by Asrialol; 2011-08-28 at 03:49 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Quick question, does Arcane Shot or Aimed Shot scale better with gear?
    Aimed Shot. Sadly Arcane is a terrible shot for MM, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw almost no one using it, outside of movement, come patch 4.3. Even now you will see a decent DPS increase switching from Arcane to Aimed when you can cast it.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Solemn View Post
    Aimed Shot. Sadly Arcane is a terrible shot for MM, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw almost no one using it, outside of movement, come patch 4.3. Even now you will see a decent DPS increase switching from Arcane to Aimed when you can cast it.
    3 out of the 5 top 5 baleroc 25m hm hunters might have a different opinion on that case.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    3 out of the 5 top 5 baleroc 25m hm hunters might have a different opinion on that case.
    Are you trying to argument that he's wrong, just because some people doing good DPS on a boss did it differently? All simulation tools out there shows a DPS increase of 500-1500 DPS by hard casting aimed shot as focus dump outside of movement.

    Just because Hunters are in top guilds / are top DPS on Worldoflogs, doesn't mean they're the best / all knowing.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Are you trying to argument that he's wrong, just because some people doing good DPS on a boss did it differently? All simulation tools out there shows a DPS increase of 500-1500 DPS by hard casting aimed shot as focus dump outside of movement.

    Just because Hunters are in top guilds / are top DPS on Worldoflogs, doesn't mean they're the best / all knowing.
    yes i do. arcane shot definitely isn't a terrible shot although it might be slightly! inferior to aimed shot but that's all about it. mastery and sic'em make sure that your glyphed arc shot stays competetive.
    and as arc shot dump is competitive in the most parchwerkish fight where the best geared hunters do their damage checks i cannot see why this spell would lackluster.

  11. #31
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I have 1650 haste from gear and adding the the extra from ISS and Pathing I get 1.49 sec Steady cast time (if I manage to keep ISS up all the time) and 2.2 sec aimed cast time w/o the 10% haste buff from raid (our raid lacks that most of the time). Is it enough DPS vise?

    There has been tons of arguments whether to cast Aimed Shot or Arcane shot and which is better, but I would love to know with that amount of haste I have which is better to use - Aimed or Arcane? ATM I cannot keep the CS - SS - SS - AS - AS - SS - SS - SS rota up, since about somewhere half way of the third SS CS is already off CD and am delaying it. (Don't have CS glyphed).

    If I get 1850 haste from gear + 3/3 Pathing and ISS I would get 1.47 sec for Steady and 2.13 sec for Aimed. Is loosing some crit worth it to get the haste up?

    Not reforging anything out of crit, just not referging few pieces into crit? ( I lack the know-how to make FD use my personal haste numbers not the one that armory give, so cannot do that much simcraft).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    If your raid is lacking the 10% buff, then you might want to consider going Survival to grant the raid the buff. Specially if it's 25man.


    yes i do. arcane shot definitely isn't a terrible shot although it might be slightly! inferior to aimed shot but that's all about it. mastery and sic'em make sure that your glyphed arc shot stays competetive.
    and as arc shot dump is competitive in the most parchwerkish fight where the best geared hunters do their damage checks i cannot see why this spell would lackluster.
    Aimed Shot will do more damage than Arcane in most, if not all, scenarios. The only thing you're trying to argument is that Arcane Shot isn't bad, which of course is correct. But it doesn't change the fact that hard casting Aimed Shot is usually better than Arcane Shot, though of course it somewhat depends on your haste and raid composition. They're both fine shots, and they're both viable. But you will in the end see the most DPS by using Aimed, if played correctly.

  13. #33
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    If your raid is lacking the 10% buff, then you might want to consider going Survival to grant the raid the buff. Specially if it's 25man.
    I will speak with our Shammy and ask what Totetems she uses and if has the Windfurry or what ever is it called up, no point in SV and well when there ir our frost DK with us no point either in specing SV.

    But still I would love to know at what haste numbers w/o the extra haste you get from BL/rapid fire is it actually worth casting Aimed shot - which is the optimal cast time of Steady for Aimed shot rotation? I'm not arguing which is better Arcane or Aimed.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    3 out of the 5 top 5 baleroc 25m hm hunters might have a different opinion on that case.
    Always funny seeing people who truly have no idea what they are talking about, yet still feel the need to post responses. As someone who speaks from actual experience on hard mode Beleroc, Aimed Shot is highly superior to Arcane Shot. This is fact. No WoL or math can argue this. Will people use Arcane shot? Of course, it's by no means useless, but it doesn't change the fact that you will gain a significant DPS increase by using Aimed Shot when the situation allows. On top of that, the t12 4p is a much larger DPS gain when using Aimed Shot as a focus dump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Are you trying to argument that he's wrong, just because some people doing good DPS on a boss did it differently? All simulation tools out there shows a DPS increase of 500-1500 DPS by hard casting aimed shot as focus dump outside of movement.

    Just because Hunters are in top guilds / are top DPS on Worldoflogs, doesn't mean they're the best / all knowing.
    Exactly. Although you shouldn't go entirely off of the "Sim". As I am sure you know, Sims are ideal circumstances, and in almost no situation will you every be ideal. A "Perfect" sim highly favors Arcane Shot due to latency/human error. Taking that into account and you can expect to see an even larger increase than what you've posted on some fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    yes i do. arcane shot definitely isn't a terrible shot although it might be slightly! inferior to aimed shot but that's all about it. mastery and sic'em make sure that your glyphed arc shot stays competetive.
    and as arc shot dump is competitive in the most parchwerkish fight where the best geared hunters do their damage checks i cannot see why this spell would lackluster.
    Arcane shot is terrible. Damage and scaling are terrible for MM. Again, you are speaking with 0 evidence or experience to support anything you say besides "World of logs says this!"

    As far as quoting "mastery and sic'em make sure that your glyphed arc shot stays competetive." I hope you realize that in a 5 minute fight, you can expect to see about 10-20 missed Auto shots? Which is nullified by the fact you get more Piercing shot's Damage. The argument of "You lose Auto Shot mastery" is not even a valid one. And Sic'em, while a nice talent, does not equate to enough damage to argue anything. It never will as long as the pet attack has a 3 second cooldown. Even in BiS gear, your pet does not deal more than 5k in a perfect fight. Currently, there are very few fights where your pet can sit and attack 24/7. Because of that Sic'em will never have a high DPS value, even with Arcane shot dump.


    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    If your raid is lacking the 10% buff, then you might want to consider going Survival to grant the raid the buff. Specially if it's 25man.


    Aimed Shot will do more damage than Arcane in most, if not all, scenarios. The only thing you're trying to argument is that Arcane Shot isn't bad, which of course is correct. But it doesn't change the fact that hard casting Aimed Shot is usually better than Arcane Shot, though of course it somewhat depends on your haste and raid composition. They're both fine shots, and they're both viable. But you will in the end see the most DPS by using Aimed, if played correctly.
    Couldn't of said it better myself.
    Last edited by Solemn; 2011-08-29 at 03:31 PM.

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    I will speak with our Shammy and ask what Totetems she uses and if has the Windfurry or what ever is it called up, no point in SV and well when there ir our frost DK with us no point either in specing SV.

    But still I would love to know at what haste numbers w/o the extra haste you get from BL/rapid fire is it actually worth casting Aimed shot - which is the optimal cast time of Steady for Aimed shot rotation? I'm not arguing which is better Arcane or Aimed.
    Elitistjerks recommends that you only hardcast Aimed Shot when you have a 1.9s cast time. Personally I hardcast it whenever I see fit, where I have 1489 haste or so. Without Windfury my AI casts at 2.2 seconds though, which I don't really see a problem with.

    I tried a full haste build earlier where I had around 2200 haste, didn't notice any difference tbh.

  16. #36
    Mechagnome Ghraxxus's Avatar
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    luv the guide... GJ ofcourse. :P

    but I've been struggling to find what actually is are BiS ranged weapon for non Troll hunters? shear as hell hope its not the lava xbow... cause I had one drop in a trash run in FL and I'd passed to let the GM who was on his hunter take it.... though its not like he'd gkick me if I won it or anything.

    and the other BiS question is the stat stick, the ranseur of hatred or http://www.wowhead.com/item=69897? and yes I've seen hunters with this staff, thus the reason for asking.
    Last edited by Ghraxxus; 2011-08-30 at 01:06 PM.

  17. #37
    For a non-troll hunter, the BiS weapon will STILL be the highest item level aviable (AKA - Rag HC bow. Or if youre only clearing normal modes without any HC, rag normal bow).
    As for the lava bolt Xbow vs Arbalest, and the Flamescythe vs the Ranseur - whichever one has the secondary stats youre going for.
    For some MM hunters, you'll be aiming for 1235+latency haste to get a 5-2-chim cycle, but others will want to stack as much haste as possible. Now, considering that the difference between the weapons are that one has mastery and the other has haste, the answer is quite simple: Are you stacking max haste? If no, can you reach 1235 haste+latency, even if youre using the scythe or the arbalest? If the answer is yes, then go ahead and use them. If the answer is no, go for the pieces with haste on them instead.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Synaia's Avatar
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    would be best for me to keep Fluid death and replace my The Hungerer trinket with matrix restab. of ragnaros or with revered one and reforge it to crit.

  19. #39
    Ok, so there's the 1235 haste cycle, what about this 1850 haste cycle I've been hearing about? is it legit? I'm playing around with it, but I really just don't see a difference in my shot cycle, it's still 2 steady, 2 arcane, 2 steady, steady/free aimed. The 1850 seems to fit better with 2 steady 3 arcane 2 steady (2 arcane if free aimed) but if I go without a proc from my 4piece, I go focus negative, and the whole cycle takes a dump.

    If the 1850 cycle is Bs, is there another haste mark we should be looking at? or should we be sticking to the 1235 mark and reforging extra haste to crit/mastery?

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    If I remember right, the 1850 plateau was something the hunters from paragon said was a plateau. I believe the EJ post states something about this.

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