Holy paladin mana on top tank on Beth'Tilac

[Deleted]

We have just started on FL (finally ) and we are running with a resto druid / resto shammy / holy paladin healing group. For Beth'Tilac the holy paladin is upstairs, and due to various issues, there is only the tank + healer up top.

The paladin has primarily been a PvP healer and seems to be having mana issues (i.e. coming down after one devastation with 20% mana) and some trouble keeping the tank up at times. She has a 363 iLevel and so the gear seems to be ok (its all proper PvE gear, no resi or anything), I think it is more of a PvP vs PvE mindset and not being used to conservation over drawn out fights. Iirc she was mostly healing with divine light.

Could any holy paladins out there tell me how they heal the top tank on Beth (or if it is avoided for paladins) and offer any suggestions for a PvP healer making the transition to PvE raiding.

cheers

[megar]

normal mode i assume? i do it just fine on my paladin, cant really help your paladin with out some logs or a way to see what spells he casts while up there. DL + HS + WoG i pop plea on my way down back to full mana by the time i go up again

[supmeh]

If it's really a PvP vs PvE thing then he needs to stop using Flash of Light, since that's really the big potential "problem" a PvP mindset would have. If they're the ONLY two up there, then he should Beacon the tank and Holy Light himself. If he doesn't need a heal himself or the tank needs more healing than that, swap to Divine Lights on the tank (the HPM efficiency will match Holy Light due to HP generation). I'm going to assume he knows how to use acquired Holy Power efficiently since that shouldn't be too much different than PvP. Remind him to use CD's to mitigate damage as well, Divine Protection on himself for the small AoE, Fire Resistance Aura Mastery, etc.

As for mana, there's also no reason he shouldn't be able to Judge the spider on CD and melee him for additional mana return, he can also use Divine Plea while climbing the strands since he more than likely won't be healing anyone until he gets to the top. Honestly it depends a lot on the tank too (gear level, shield vs no-shield, CD usage), but ultimately I found myself coming down from the top with 100% mana ready to help carry the other healers in the next phase since they were burning through faster.

[Deleted]

ye have to agree can realy say what is wrong without any logs. But i assume she is using some flash of lights too. Since that is prob the worst heal we got in pve. I only use it on Baleroc if tank aint topped when decimation blade hits. I used to do it like healing holy lights and occasionally DL since there is time between the hits up there. To help on the dmg just use your own defensive cd:s like auramastery, divine protection ect. It saves loads of mana. And ye only use mana cd:s when coming down and let the other 2 healers heal the aoe dmg so you can save some mana. Should not be too bad mana problems that way.

[Teri]

When I do it (10 man normal) usually tank goes up first, then me taking 2nd right after, with a 3rd dps coming after that.

Beacon on top tank at all times (until tank switch in phase 2 for light of dawn transfers).

If haste is anything decent holy light/shock/3 point wog is near enough to keep tank up, even by sometimes healing the dps with holy light (100% beacon transfer) + self heals from PoTI/judge.

Also depends on the type of tank however, we use a prot paladin and they take a LOT less burst from melee hits then a DK ever will especially after avoidance cap.

Avoid flash of light unless its emergency last second save(when shock/wog/hasted divine light aren't enough). Holy light + daybreak procs + glyphed/talented WoG(eternal glory) can do a lot of cheap healing. Crit shocks speed up further holy lights for more daybreak procs.

We use resto shaman/resto druid and sometimes a priest but always downstairs since they are more suited for the aoe healing and paladins far more for the single(2-3 via beacon/selfheals).

They recently hotfixed beth by reducing some damage as well so it only got easier. I usually end up with like 80% each top phase.

Usually after each top phase, use divine plea+torrent(if belf), concentration potion if really low right after jump also helps. Hand of sacrifice + divine protection/aura mastery also reduce a bit of tank damage, self heals should cover most of your own hp.

[Deleted]

Well, it's not always about the healer. The tank should also rotate his cooldowns while he's up with ol' Betty, which makes all the difference in the world.

Personally I rotate divine favor and avenging wrath and spam holy light + holy sock + word of glory, for me that is enough as long as the tank keeps his cooldowns. Of course sometimes you might have to do a divine light. I understand there might be a gear difference but coming down with 20 % mana is just not right no mater what he does. Also tell him to use divine plea when he's about to jump down.


Of course it's possible that his healing upstairs is so intense that he forgets to use judgment.


But in the end I think it's a simple matter of him using flash of light. Please, DO NOT USE FLASH OF LIGHT, ever.

[Deleted]

cheers for the replies so far guys I am going to be recording next weeks attempts so hopefully a WoL record will give better insight into what can be done.

I have passed the current suggestions onto her and lets see if any helps

[Kataklism]

I'm in a similar situation, rough time last night healing the tank up top, just looking for some tips or helpful suggestions.

I've already gleaned several tidbits of wisdom from this thread already, so I figured I'd put up the log and see if there was anything else specific I needed to be working on.

Thanks in advance
www worldoflogs com/reports/e15puyw6jdqzmvln/

edit: doh. too new to post the actual link as an URL

[Deleted]

I'm in a similar situation, rough time last night healing the tank up top, just looking for some tips or helpful suggestions.

I've already gleaned several tidbits of wisdom from this thread already, so I figured I'd put up the log and see if there was anything else specific I needed to be working on.

Thanks in advance
www worldoflogs com/reports/e15puyw6jdqzmvln/

took 10sec to notice your problem. 49.9% judgement uptime = you dont just judgement all the time wich is major mana lost. like your longest attempt was 3min 10sec and you did 7 judgements. when you should be doing every singel cd (8 sec cd). It gives me 3.4k mana each time i cast judgement (im Blood elf). so thats one reason you are so low on mana. And as for the world of glory. You should do it more often if you are healing upstairs. You did 4 world of glorys in the 3 min fight. It is a free heal (uses holypower) wich heals loads. You did 3 light dawns wich healed total 14k so dont use it if you dont have 4+ ppl in range of it. Rather use WoG

[DemoBytom]

yup. Paladin should judgment on every CD and mele the boss whenever possible using Seal of Insight. Otherwise you're going to be in a lot of trouble mana-wise.

[Nillo]

Stop suggesting to judge "on cd" - you should be using it as often as "possible", but not on cd - which usually ends up being every 15-20 seconds on average.
Still not having 100% uptime on the Judgement buff is terribad.
Your paladin is also not using a single Hand of Sacrifice and no Divine Protection (Hand of Sacrifice on the tank once both are on the web, then glyphed Divine Protection to mitigate the damage to you), which would save him lots of trouble
And he appears to be using the Mandala trinket from TB => needs to be replaced asap because ... it's crap. (Core of Ripeness is easy to get and DMC:Tsunami shouldn't be too expensive)

Also I doubt you will be able to kill the boss if you don't send any dps up as this will prolong p2 which usually ends up in you being destroyed by her aoe.

[Kataklism]

First, a clarification, I am neither the OP nor his pally in question.

Thanks for the replies, I've got the Core, I actually swapped back to the Mandala for last night to see if with the spirit my mana regen was any different, but I won't try that again. DMC:Tsunami might be affordable for me, I'll look into it.

Obviously (now that it's pointed out) my judgement frequency was... lacking. All I can say in defense was that I was panicked trying to get a heal out with every GCD.
Judge, Judge, Judge. Check.
HoSac and Divine Prot, check. I'll drop Glyph of Beacon for GoDP.
WoG rather than LoD. check. that was more mindless button mashing than anything. >.<

This was purposely a learning run for us, mainly to help train the downstairs dps on add management as well as for the Away team to get practice. We will have a dps or two up top once we've got the dance down a bit better, and ready for serious attempts.

[Bynxx]

Stop suggesting to judge "on cd" - you should be using it as often as "possible", but not on cd - which usually ends up being every 15-20 seconds on average.
Still not having 100% uptime on the Judgement buff is terribad.
Your paladin is also not using a single Hand of Sacrifice and no Divine Protection (Hand of Sacrifice on the tank once both are on the web, then glyphed Divine Protection to mitigate the damage to you), which would save him lots of trouble
And he appears to be using the Mandala trinket from TB => needs to be replaced asap because ... it's crap. (Core of Ripeness is easy to get and DMC:Tsunami shouldn't be too expensive)

Also I doubt you will be able to kill the boss if you don't send any dps up as this will prolong p2 which usually ends up in you being destroyed by her aoe.

Judging as close to CD as possible is good advice actually, it's one of the ways of distuingishing between good and bad paladins, but obviously judging sensibly is important. However fitting in as many judgements as possible really helps keep on top of your mana.

[blazto]

I'm in a similar situation, rough time last night healing the tank up top, just looking for some tips or helpful suggestions.

I've already gleaned several tidbits of wisdom from this thread already, so I figured I'd put up the log and see if there was anything else specific I needed to be working on.

Thanks in advance
www worldoflogs com/reports/e15puyw6jdqzmvln/

edit: doh. too new to post the actual link as an URL

To help any pally with mana problems, you need to make sure they understand regen mechanics. Paladins have a few ways to do this.
1. Divine Plea
2. Judging
3. Meleeing boss or adds with Seal of Insight
4. If you're a BE Arcane Torrent (best used with Power Torrent or trinket int procs)

Here's a few things I do with each:

1. Divine Plea around 70-75% and use Hand of Sacrifice on tank.( Don't use hand or sacrifice in the Baleroc fight atleast on the tanks. If you do Divine Shield ) Divine Plea on Power Torrent procs. Remember Divine Plea has a healing penalty so be careful.
2. Judge as much as possible.
3. If it's safe to do so smack an add or boss as much as possible.

Also remember you have Avenging Wrath. AW+Holy Lights helps save mana. Bigger heals for a low mana cost. Also use your Holy Power. It's a mana-free source of heals. Build Holy Power as fast as you can and use it.

[Pancaspe]

Lots of fast heals.

Holy Shock on cool down, make sure he is specced into WoG for more free heals, pop Divine Plea on the way down.

Don't forget Hand of Sac is great mitigation, and Beacon the Tank for Holy Power

[Deleted]

It might not be a problem with the paladin but a problem with the tank? The tank NEEDS to pop cooldowns or your pally will be running oom fast because of the amount of damage upstairs. Also, there isn't really any need for using flash of light, so primarily be using divine light to get the tank up fast, then switch to holy lights to conserve mana. I like to pool holy power before I go up so that I can throw a quick 3 HoP WoG and a holy shock on the tank as soon as i'm up, then switch to divine light/holy light.

[Nillo]

It might not be a problem with the paladin but a problem with the tank? The tank NEEDS to pop cooldowns or your pally will be running oom fast because of the amount of damage upstairs. Also, there isn't really any need for using flash of light, so primarily be using divine light to get the tank up fast, then switch to holy lights to conserve mana. I like to pool holy power before I go up so that I can throw a quick 3 HoP WoG and a holy shock on the tank as soon as i'm up, then switch to divine light/holy light.

Judging from the logs the tank was using Shield Block on cd (but not using Shield Wall / Last stand)

[Xentin]

On normal I solo heal the tank and dps up top on 25 man, and it depends on a lot of communication between the tank and the healer.

I dont have mana problems at all now that my gear is better, but the tank still can get hit hard. And plus we sends 4 dps up with the tank so you have to work to prioritize your tank and stay on top of things at all time.

• Make sure you are managing your mana
• Use defensive cds on yourself (Divine Protection) and on tank
• Communicate with tank if you are getting behind on healing, have them pop cds. Don't have them pop cd's randomly when you are ok on healing.
• Dont fall in holes in the web.
• Should be doing this anyway, but make sure you are not reactive healing, always precast heals, and then cancel cast them if you dont need them.
• Someone else said fast heals, but always use Divine Light, WOG, and HS. Never use FoL unless the tank is extremely low and you know you cant get the heal off in time.

[Deleted]

One thing that will help A LOT is proper CD usage. Both the tank and the healer need to make the most of their CDs - Hand of Sac can be used on the 1st and 2nd, DP can be used on all 3, Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor and GotAK all should be used at proper times as well. The tank needs to use CDs too, there are 3 phases and s/he needs to have CDs running for all 3 of them. Don't be squarish, use your resources. Between a tank and a pally healer you have nearly a dozen CDs, there is zero reason why they shouldn't all be used 1-2 times each.

Judge as often as possible and use Divine Plea when jumping down. Use a mana potion if needed.

Make sure the tank is geared properly (ie: not hit or exp, get some mastery) and the healer is geared properly for good int/spirit.

[Apellosine]

really have no issues healing this on my holy pally, we have 2 dps going up in 10man and between beacon heals from holy lights, a few divine lights here and there with good usage of WoG, I go back up each web phase with full mana. Just need some practise on mana conservation and you should be golden.