Capture the flag maps need a better system for winning.

[Deleted]

As it is right now, the last team to cap a flag in a game that ends in either 1-1 or 2-2 wins. As you most certainly understand, this is really frustrating for players who has a sense of sportsmanship.
You NEVER see a soccer team win all the points just by being the last team to score. Neither hockeyteams can win just by being the last one to score.

Just to set an example, the other day, i played RBG with my guild. It was a rather tight game, both teams pushed extremely hard for their sake and the game was very entertaining. With 2 minutes left to play we capped and thereby set the score to 2-1 to our advantage. We decided to defend the game out. So we are taking the flag with one of our attack teams members and work our way home. When we are at our base, the entire team, we swap flag carrier because the opposing team was attacking with all their forces. BAM, a rogue pops out of stealth and snatches the flag right infront of us. They capped to 2-2 with one minute left to play and there is no possible way to cap a flag in one minute at such a tight game. Now this was pure luck and we should have won that game.

Now this system is really unfair and needs to be changed for the sake of sportsmanship.

My own suggestions are either a sudden death system or a penalty to both teams which makes it easier for the opposing team to cap.

1. Sudden death, if a game ends in 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2 the ress gets removed, so the first team that has no players left loses.
Now this could be an opportunity to mess with the others if you hide somewhere. Possible solutions for that is either the have the map showing enemies in x minutes into the sudden death state of the game or even by giving players who don't engage in combat after x minutes a debuff which are slowly killing them.

2. Next cap wins, no matter if it's 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2. in addition, a faster stacking debuff for flag carriers could be implemented. Just to speed up the end of the game.

3. Just let it be a tie, no team gets any rating change.

I do know that players tend to want fast games, but i would say that this only applies to unrated battlegrounds, a win in a rated one is more important to the players than the speed of the games.

If you have some suggestions, please post it here and please do not whine about the outgoing of the game i mentioned. I'm here for response on my thoughts about the system, not wheter it was fail by us or win by the opposing team in my example.

[Solarshot]

get a better connection so you can swap fc's quicker?

[Jomaty]

I have to say all 3 of your ideas are really good. I do like that sudden death - it's like an overtime. Let it be like the NFL, go into OT, first team to score wins. Could be that easy. If nobody does score in that OT then let it be a draw and not count or affect either teams rating.

[Very Tired]

"Ties" in blizzard language is 2 loses never 2 nothings

[Chamenos]

Personaly, I would quite enjoy the Sudden Death concept. It would put a, "One Final Shot" kind of attitude, maybe even getting the players to play a little better/try a little harder. Sounds like a fun idea

[Bombkirby]

I love the idea BUT I can't vote for it yet. I can't say I truly would support it. Why? Because each idea is exploitable in some way. For example a rogue could sap someone over and over and force players to stay out of combat for long periods of time. Thats just one example. The problem is there are hundreds of spells, items and other things they'd have to change to make these ideas work.

The best solution would be to just have a simply fix. The tie where no one wins or everyone loses is a clean easy fix.

[r3nd]

I do agree, however, the game probably sees that situation as so:

The last team to cap has control of the flow of the bg, therefor is playing better, therefor deserves the win.
Not saying I agree with this at all, but that's probably what they think is easiest and fair. Which it obviously isn't.

---------- Post added 2011-08-26 at 06:12 PM ----------

Or maybe it's based on casualties?

[Deleted]

Meh better than the 2hour long WSG's

[Deleted]

I dont really see how that game you lost was "unfair", you knew the game worked like that in the BG, and the rogue just made a good play. neither do i see why you have the sentence "this is really frustrating for players who has a sense of sportsmanship.", i dont see any point of it in this context.

Tho i must agree that the current system isnt the best, and i would like a fix.

[Deleted]

The problem is there are hundreds of spells, items and other things they'd have to change to make these ideas work.

But you still have the solution that the map is showing the location of enemy players after x minutes of sudden death. Now this could be extended to only applying if the player have'nt been in combat at all since sudden death started. So after each time you leave combat your time in stealth would be extended. That way it would eliminate the problem rogues and stealth would get otherwise.

---------- Post added 2011-08-27 at 01:22 AM ----------

I dont really see how that game you lost was "unfair", you knew the game worked like that in the BG, and the rogue just made a good play. neither do i see why you have the sentence "this is really frustrating for players who has a sense of sportsmanship.", i dont see any point of it in this context.

Tho i must agree that the current system isnt the best, and i would like a fix.

It's unfair because both team capped 2 flags and one of the teams became a winner of the game. Even though we scored equal points in the game.
Also, sportsmanship is about the best team winning. Not the last one to score a point in a tie game.

[Kenny2813]

Besides going into sudden death, Blizz could make a tiebreaker such as the side that has the flag the longest wins.

[Bombkirby]

But you still have the solution that the map is showing the location of enemy players after x minutes of sudden death. Now this could be extended to only applying if the player have'nt been in combat at all since sudden death started. So after each time you leave combat your time in stealth would be extended. That way it would eliminate the problem rogues and stealth would get otherwise.

What if both people just decided to troll everyone and not want to kill each other? What if they both had epic mounts and neither one of them could catch up to each other? Theres hundreds of issues I haven't touched upon. They'd have to really get in there and change a lot of things. The best solution when it comes to an MMO like WoW is to just slightly change what each outcome causes. In the event of a tie, instead of patching in an entirely new game mode they'd have to program from scratch, they can't just change the rewards. The best and cleanest solution is seriously to just change the reward from a tie to both teams being awarded a loss.

[StationaryHawk]

So you're angry that you lost a flag while trying to swap FCs, and now think it's unbalanced?

[Thingamajig]

I was pretty sure that Sap didn't work after the 3rd strike (or it had a pretty decent cooldown afterwards). So a Rogue could sap 3 times but after that nothing. I could be wrong about this, I haven't played a Rogue for very long yet.

--

You get 45 pts for a win, 15 for a loss. Make a tie split the difference = 30 pts. Nice and neat.

[Bombkirby]

I was pretty sure that Sap didn't work after the 3rd strike (or it had a pretty decent cooldown afterwards). So a Rogue could sap 3 times but after that nothing. I could be wrong about this, I haven't played a Rogue for very long yet.

3 times is enough. Thats like what? Almost 20 seconds of being able to do nothing. Lets say you died after 60 seconds of not being in combat... If you were 40 seconds away from any combat you're doomed. And the rogue can always distract......wait til the DR wears off and do it again. There's A LOT of issues as I said. This is just the tip of the iceburg. I'm not only talking about rogues sapping here.

[Deleted]

What if both people just decided to troll everyone and not want to kill each other? What if they both had epic mounts and neither one of them could catch up to each other? Theres hundreds of issues I haven't touched upon. They'd have to really get in there and change a lot of things. The best solution when it comes to an MMO like WoW is to just slightly change what each outcome causes. In the event of a tie, instead of patching in an entirely new game mode they'd have to program from scratch, they can't just change the rewards. The best and cleanest solution is seriously to just change the reward from a tie to both teams being awarded a loss.

To make both teams lose in the event of a tie would be just as unfair as it is right now. Take my example. The rogue snatches the flag and instead of winning rating, you are losing rating. Even though you still have scored just as many points as the opposing team. Players don't give a shit about the opposing teams rating changes, they only care about their own.
The sudden death could can be made foolproof. Everything can. Make it timelimited, after the time runs out you get the debuff that is slowly killing you no matter if you where in combat or not. (someone who was hiding should have recieved this debuff way earlier to ensure you dont hide and win) You could also add to the clockwork that if you get affected by ANY player ability your timer towards the debuff is reseted. So no one can troll and keep you out of combat til' you get the debuff. That would make both teams really put an effort in trying to kill the other team.

[Bombkirby]

To make both teams lose in the event of a tie would be just as unfair as it is right now. Take my example. The rogue snatches the flag and instead of winning rating, you are losing rating. Even though you still have scored just as many points as the opposing team. Players don't give a shit about the opposing teams rating changes, they only care about their own.
The sudden death could can be made foolproof. Everything can. Make it timelimited, after the time runs out you get the debuff that is slowly killing you no matter if you where in combat or not. (someone who was hiding should have recieved this debuff way earlier to ensure you dont hide and win) That would make both teams really put an effort in trying to kill the other team.

Look. I KNOW your idea is more fair. But I'm talking about the trouble they have to go through to implement your idea. Its no where in game so they have to construct it themselves. This is a time consuming process, and can cause many bugs if they mess up the old code. This is not the cleanest solution. The most realistic solution is to simply change the outcome of tieing rather than adding a whole new event that happens in the event of a tie.

And both sides losing isn't bad. NO ONE wants to lose. And both teams will be trying their hardest to get the next cap. The way we have it now encourages turtling....and not actually trying to get the next cap.

[Kwello]

Not to be harsh but you really nees to aoe while you make the switch. You didn't therefore the smarter rouge returned it. Thus, thesmarter team won...learn from it. The system is good.

[Deleted]

So you're angry that you lost a flag while trying to swap FCs, and now think it's unbalanced?

I have never said a word about unbalanced, neither have i said anything about being angry. I know how the systems is working and there is nothing to be upset about. As i wrote, i think it's unfair and lack sportsmanship. In the end that's why we play rated, to win and be the best.

And please. read the whole post before your troll-attempts.
"If you have some suggestions, please post it here and please do not whine about the outgoing of the game i mentioned. I'm here for response on my thoughts about the system, not wheter it was fail by us or win by the opposing team in my example."

---------- Post added 2011-08-27 at 01:52 AM ----------

Not to be harsh but you really nees to aoe while you make the switch. You didn't therefore the smarter rouge returned it. Thus, thesmarter team won...learn from it. The system is good.

The smarter team you say? That was pure luck and situational awareness of ONE player. and still they did not score more points than us. The game still ended in 2-2.. How can that be a good system?

Also, an AoE in the flag swap would not help much. The roguge can still come in sprint and ninja the flag.

So, i don'tcare if you think you are harsh or not, the comment is totally irrelevant and has no thoughts behind it. kkthxbai.

[Spl4sh3r]

I rather have so that the first one to cap the flag in a tie wins. Meaning if Alliance caps first 1-0 then Horde will need 2 caps to win at minimum. Last one to get a cap wins is just stupid. It's like World First going to the second boss kill and so on.