I thought heroics were difficult.......

[xxAkirhaxx]

ZA/ZG remains a little difficult to PuG because of tanks either sucking or not being appreciated by dick dps.

I have been trying to change this for weeks now. I run anywhere from 5-10 ZA/ZGs a day (ya I play too much) and at my worst I die when I pull 2 packs at once. I always try to be nice to the entire group, I think the harshest thing I said to a group was that they should've gone easier on the tank whose spot I took because they booted him for performing under there expectations when that entire group had performed under mine.

Other than that I'm trying to reverse this stigma that tanks are either horrible, or elitist ass holes. I still haven't seen my toon mentioned in the positive pugs section though.

[tavistra]

I'm pretty amazed that out of all the people who replied to the original poster so far, only two of them (fishface and treelife) understood the point he was trying to make.The OP is saying that he thought heroics were difficult.... because his guildies stood in fire basically. When he did heroics with ppl that didn't stand in fire, he found that they weren't difficult anymore. Not a real complicated premise there... He doesn't say anything about relative difficulty of cata heroics, gear, ilvl, pre-nerf, post-nerf, at cata launch, now, etc, any of that.

Most of the people who posted responses just seem to kind of tooting their own horn, like "OMG noob, u still think cata heroics are hard? they were never hard lolz, even pre-nerf", which has nothing to do with the thread at all.

Are any of you people even bothering to read the post? lolol

[xxAkirhaxx]

I'm pretty amazed that out of all the people who replied to the original poster so far, only two of them (fishface and treelife) understood the point he was trying to make.The OP is saying that he thought heroics were difficult.... because his guildies stood in fire basically. When he did heroics with ppl that didn't stand in fire, he found that they weren't difficult anymore. Not a real complicated premise there... He doesn't say anything about relative difficulty of cata heroics, gear, ilvl, pre-nerf, post-nerf, at cata launch, now, etc, any of that.

Most of the people who posted responses just seem to kind of tooting their own horn, like "OMG noob, u still think cata heroics are hard? they were never hard lolz, even pre-nerf", which has nothing to do with the thread at all.

Are any of you people even bothering to read the post? lolol

So the OP was just trashing his guildies while proclaming his leetness? He deserves a cookie, with raisins.

[shubato]

Most guilds have their better and worse players.
Sometimes you'll never know who they are because "this is just horrible" is what you come away with instead of "all but that 1 dps are bad".

Something that can help you out in figuring this out with your guild. Look at damage taken in recount.
If anybody is much higher than others (except the tank), they're probably a big part of the problem.
Tanks are hard to tell without looking further though. A tank is supposed to take all the damage, but if a tank stands on an explosion or something, that makes it much harder to heal. As a newer player, that difference isn't always easy to spot, as you may just think it is expected damage.

Hope that helps you out a bit.

[Velkeri]

Acutally while you are at it I bet you could go clear t 11 pretty quick also because they nerfd that really big. Like I think the new heroics might be harder than t 11 not sure its been a while since I have played :P

[Deleted]

Heroics were never hard. Retards just made them hard. This was made very obvious during release day.

I dinged realm first of my class 85. By picking up all the items I got from questing ( regardless of use for me ), being honor and justice capped I was able to queue for heroics instantly when dinging 85, however I went to grab something to eat first and was gone for an hour, I think there were about 20 players at 85 on my realm when I first queued to heroics. I only had about 310 item level, max equipped, cheated the rest, but ofc used enchanted and gemmed gear, not a slacker. So I queued to heroics, and basically, everyone that joined the groups were in the same situation as me. 300-310-ish item level with cheated the rest. Every player that I grouped with for the next few hours or so came from top 50 EU guilds, with some rare exceptions. It was actually fun to see since pretty much everyone had some Death's Demise, Grand Crusader or similar titles.

And still everyone, I mean EVERYONE in the group being undergeared and the heroics was still pretty "new" content. I never played on the test realms so I did not know shit about them really. We just streamrolled dungeon after dungeon. Never wiped, even though people were adjusting to the bosses as they came. "Hey, fire, lets not stand in it.".

It was very fun since it was kinda challenging at the same time as it was just a steamroll.

Then after being awake for a good 30-40 hours, I went to sleep. Waking up on the next day, queuing to a new heroic. By this time, all the retards and regular players had dinged 85. Heroics were now a brick wall. Even though I had geared up very nicely. ( I was tanking ), I died like a squishy fly. The day before in green shit gear, I was never even close to dieng, now with more then 50% 346, I felt like I was in dps spec. The bosses with dps checks just did not go down fast enough, even though most people actually had 329 by now, the same fights that we killed twice as fast in alot worse gear the day before.

Dungeons at this point had to be done with friends.
And that is the sad truth, dungeons were never hard. Bad players made them hard.

And people will go "hrr, wrath dungeons was easier". I would care to disagree. You will see how hard cata dungeons is in full T13. Also, it looks like T13 is the last tier of Cata, but what people forget is that Wrath dungeons were made in the equivalent of T14 ( ICC gear was 3 raid patches after release. )

During release and pre-nerf wrath dungeons was atleast as hard ( Read as: Just as easy ) as cata dungeons. Good players steamrolled them and bad players crushed their heads into the wall. The big difference would be though that the Wrath Dungeon Meta was 10x harder than the Cata Dungeon Meta.
I got 75% of the Cata Dungeon Meta by just running the dungeons and got them by accident. The other 25% took a couple of hours to get. They were just not hard. Some of them was kinda creative but still very undertuned. I remember the wrath dungeon meta, hrr, Anub'Arak, why won't you die in 2 minutes? That was still hard in full naxx gear. There were also ALOT more that was just simply a pain in the ass.