Pre-stacking DA is BAD.

[whyabadi]

If you have the mana and the time to pre-stack DA, then it becomes the right thing to do. I used to do it in heroic instances back when they were challenging and especially if the group decided that we didn't need CC.

[zakaluka]

Check your logs on this. Mine show PoH DA crits hitting for ~10k sometimes

I can confirm this, finally got around to checking and testing. DA for PoH crits are twice as large as they should be. Like gigglepants suggested, you get the DA from the talent (which is twice as big as usual because the PoH crit) and you also get a DA from the crit (same size as first one). Four times larger than a normal DA from PoH, not twice as large which was what I originally thought. This will make the synergy between crit/mst even stronger and could explain why people balancing mst/crit top WoL so often.

[Deleted]

Heal is also nice to stack DA as a precast, so efficient too.

[Madam]

Zak, always enjoy reading your posts. Not really a math person but rather what "feels" best kind of healer. Unfortunately this can be costly due to regemming and reforging.

I keep a personal blog only to record my thoughts on stats. When 4.2 hit (first week in July) PoH was very exciting, I will share part of what I wrote:

"....So far it seems that DA shields (and Crit) are going to really shine in Firelands. After the first night of raiding I dropped some Mastery for more of a balance of stats, brought Haste back for faster PoH to match the rapid damage patterns. I for one am really looking forward to messing around with stat stacking, just a guess at this point, but seems a balance of all three may win, and by the end of T12 we may see Crit pull ahead...."

Now the question becomes this, at what point do you stop stacking Haste in favor of maintaining Mastery/Crit or Crit>Mastery?

[gigglepants]

Keep in mind, i could be wrong. Using someone else's spreadsheets for these calculations.

Now the question becomes this, at what point do you stop stacking Haste in favor of maintaining Mastery/Crit or Crit>Mastery?

Short answer is never. For POH: Always Haste>Crit>Mastery. I did some calc's and found the stat weights using 1000 for crit mastery and haste and found the relative values(This is ONLY for POH spamming using my fully raid buffed character values @ilvl 376):
Haste: 2.56
Crit: 2.21
Mastery: 1.16

This assumes the full heal is used. I also varied each of haste crit and mastery by 1000 in either direction and it seems there is little change to relative values of these stat weights(+/- 10%).

I hope I'm wrong. It'd be nice if there was some synergy between the stats. POH spam is really only useful during periods of low damage before a period of burst AOE. In other cases of high AOE damage(i.e. beth) the POM/POH/PW:S trifecta would be utilized and would require additional analysis for stat weights.

[Wuga]

Now the question becomes this, at what point do you stop stacking Haste in favor of maintaining Mastery/Crit or Crit>Mastery?

For all direct healing spells, crit and haste are close enough in terms of throughput gains that you're just trading off between the extra mana consumption of haste and the rng of crit, you don't really gain hps by swapping one for the other. Realistically since you are going to be casting some shields, haste is always better than crit until very high (unattainable) levels of haste. Mastery scales extremely poorly with everything except PW:S and really should be avoided unless you are casting a lot of shields (in which case you should stack it and dump all your crit).

To the OP, Domo (buff doesn't affect shields) and Sinestra (PW:S is GCD capped) are the only fights where I think prestacking DA ever makes sense over shield spam.

[zakaluka]

Now the question becomes this, at what point do you stop stacking Haste in favor of maintaining Mastery/Crit or Crit>Mastery?

Madam, I'm fiddling around trying to answer this question. As always the 'highest average' throughput answer won't necessarily win out because it might mean cutting haste too low or stacking crit too high. You absolutely NEED enough haste not just for the throughput but for triage. Stacking crit too high would be bad because you'd be bubbling more often to even out the raid. So, I'll always fail safe to the 'low-crit high-haste' side.

Now, answering this question, it sadly requires higher math or some computer modeling program that can optimize it. IE mathematica or something similar.

There isn't a real simulator that I know of for healers, because you can just do some straight math and calculate what the averages should be. Neither simulationcraft nor rawr have any allowance for 'simulating' a healing rotation. Too bad. But, for any given gearpoint you can come up with kind of a 'formula' for what your throughput should be, that takes MST CRIT and HST as variables. Now you have to say: I have 3600 secondary stat points available, where should I put them to get max throughput or max effic?

First, it depends entirely on where you want your maximum throughput to be (what spells you will be casting when damage gets high). Then you need calculus to come up with an answer . It's probably way too involved for any sane person to care so much about but I'll think about whether there's some semi easy way to do it.

But you are definitely right, some mix of stats blows away any stacked setup. What's that mix? Don't know for sure yet. If I'm right, my raw hps max should be about 8% higher tonight than it was on friday. In this game where little numbers add up to big numbers, 8% is quite a lot.

I will say it starts with HST>CRIT>MST for an aoe healing rotation, but the value of MST rises with gearpoint and the value of HST falls off sharply until it's pretty similar in value to CRIT. Now, can you depend on crit averages? Absolutely, when you get 5 hits every 2 seconds and you're sporting 30% crit. I see crit deviation about +/- 1.5% for PoH in my logs. If I can edge in an extra 8% average throughput by adding some crit, I *should* see at least a 6% jump in raw hps. We will see. But there are other execution difficulties if you are AoE healing with high crit.

[ijeff]

It's always fun when you over-gear an encounter and Weakened Soul is all over the 10m raid.

[Afflictid]

What someone said earlier. You could have 5 PW:S on 5 people, or some smaller mitigation on 15 people. I would prefer the last option.

[Deleted]

What someone said earlier. You could have 5 PW:S on 5 people, or some smaller mitigation on 15 people. I would prefer the last option.

unless.... that first aoe wave will be fully absorbed and then the sheilds droped off so instead of 15 people taking 1/2 damg you got 5 people taking none and 10 taking full. there is probably an inflection point at which when your crit/mastery/spellpower is high enough in comparison to that first aoe wave your trying to abrosb that poh gets beter.

ofc in a 10 man it's going to be bubbles, however for example on majordomo in 25man a disco can place a poh bubble on all 25 members before the first scorp cleave if has enough haste. and as it's easier to heal 25x10k healing instead of 18x15k healing and it also makes overhealing less likely on those you bubbled.

[Pottsy710]

is stacking DA on all 5 groups even feasible in a 25 man setting, unless you're haste stacked?