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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalooTakant View Post
    Heroic 25 Baleroc 1st Guac Arc Mage 44.3k dps(e)
    Heroic 25 Baleroc 4th Knobey Ele Shaman 42.4k dps(e)

    Both with the legendary staff, both with 21 tricks of the trade and 2 PIs
    As I stated before, don't try to get smart with me.

    You sir, need to check how to use WoL properly. The Mages above that Shaman didn't have the staff on those parses.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Striipes View Post
    As I stated before, don't try to get smart with me.

    You sir, need to check how to use WoL properly. The Mages above that Shaman didn't have the staff on those parses.
    But he does... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Guac/advanced

    ...you just don't see the Wrath of Tarecgosa procs from an arcane mage since they don't use DoTs. Normal spell procs copys the spell and as such you cant see them directly on WoL since they'll have the same name... you sir need to know what you're talking about before badmouthing others
    Last edited by Darcam; 2011-08-29 at 11:00 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Aic View Post
    There is allready a shaman with the legendary staff, and hes putting out 42k+ dps if i recall right, so its totally viable.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Rio View Post
    So we're starting our alt runs for FL normal modes, and my Elemental isn't the best geared. Currently I have a ZA/ZG main hand and the Elementium Stormshield. I'm debating on purchasing Spire of Scarlet pain (378 staff), but I also have the choice of nabbing Chelly's Sterilized Scappel (378 dagger) and sticking with my 359 shield.

    Running the numbers in my head, it seems the staff would lead to more INT and SP. However, I was told by my GM that Ele is 'tied down' to one handers and shields. Honestly it seems rubbish, but seeing that we have no Ele in our main raid for me to ask... Well here I am. Is there something unknown to me that increases our viability with 1H + shields over staves?

    Thanks in advance ~
    The shaman that pulled 42K dps in FL was using the legendary staff. While that can't be used as the standard, the basic motto I follow is that an upgrade is an upgrade - If you are a DW frost DK with swords from BWD and then Hand of Rag drops... you will likely do more dps switching to 2h frost and using that.

  5. #45
    You do tend to gain a little with shield and MH due to the fact that sometimes (only sometimes) A staff may not have a socket and/or you can have two enchants with MH + shield i.e. power torrent and +40 int.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcam View Post
    But he does... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Guac/advanced

    ...you just don't see the Wrath of Tarecgosa procs from an arcane mage since they don't use DoTs. Normal spell procs copys the spell and as such you cant see them directly on WoL since they'll have the same name... you sir need to know what you're talking about before badmouthing others
    Checking his activity log, he got both the trinket and the staff on the day that the parse was made. As he's using the trinket in the parse, it's reasonable to assume he's using the staff in it too. However, supposedly Arcane Missiles counts as a dot for the purposes of the WoT proc, and I don't know enough about analyzing Arcane parses to say whether or not the # of Arcane Blast casts he got was impossible. At the same time, it's rather suspect that the #1 Arcane Mage parse would be one without the staff placing him ahead of every Arcane Mage WITH the staff.

    Food for thought I suppose.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striipes View Post
    As I stated before, don't try to get smart with me.

    You sir, need to check how to use WoL properly. The Mages above that Shaman didn't have the staff on those parses.
    I'm just saying if you're going to discredit the shaman parse because of the tricks of the trade and PIs you should be discrediting all top dps parses on WoLs. It's par for the course on that site.

    I challenge you to find a top dps parse without all the extra buffs thrown at the one person.

    Edit: I can't confirm whether 2nd and 3rd had the staff at the time of their parses. However it's confirmed that Guac did have his for that parse.
    Last edited by MalooTakant; 2011-08-30 at 02:59 AM.

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  8. #48
    Don't forget a staff has less stats than the MH+OH combination.

  9. #49
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    Don't forget a staff has less stats than the MH+OH combination.
    Your average non-legendary will have slightly less Intellect, but more Secondary stats (Haste or Crit or whatever). If we look at the two BiS options (Legendary Staff vs. Rag Hammer + Red Willow Shield), The staff is better even without the amazing proc:

    Legendary Staff:
    Stam - 730
    Int - 576
    SP - 2786
    Secondary 1 (Hit) - 314
    Secondary 2 (Haste) - 271
    Awesome Proc

    MH + OH (Rag Hammer + Red Widow Shield):
    Stam - 696
    Int - 534 (this includes the OH enchant)
    SP - 2786
    Secondary 1 (Spirit) - 324
    Secondyar 2 (Haste) - 264

    All of the above Intellect scores are assuming you put a 40 Intellect gem in each Red slot.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    By 'tied down' maybe he means 'There are shields that only 3 specs can use that drop and there is no way in hell I am going to give you an off hand that like 20 specs can use and shard the shield'.
    Way to read buddy, he was talking about maybe going with A staff instead of MH/OH(Shield)

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    Your average non-legendary will have slightly less Intellect, but more Secondary stats (Haste or Crit or whatever). If we look at the two BiS options (Legendary Staff vs. Rag Hammer + Red Willow Shield), The staff is better even without the amazing proc:

    Legendary Staff:
    Stam - 730
    Int - 576
    SP - 2786
    Secondary 1 (Hit) - 314
    Secondary 2 (Haste) - 271
    Awesome Proc

    MH + OH (Rag Hammer + Red Widow Shield):
    Stam - 696
    Int - 534 (this includes the OH enchant)
    SP - 2786
    Secondary 1 (Spirit) - 324
    Secondyar 2 (Haste) - 264

    All of the above Intellect scores are assuming you put a 40 Intellect gem in each Red slot.
    Wouldn't you compare the 1h combo to a non legendary staff ? Because the legendary has a higher ilvl

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  12. #52
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalooTakant View Post
    Wouldn't you compare the 1h combo to a non legendary staff ? Because the legendary has a higher ilvl
    Touche'. I tend to miss minor details when I get a couple drinks in me.

    Honestly I'm not going to go find another comparison, but it was just to give people a basic "BiS weapon options" comparison.

  13. #53
    Legendary staff is BiS, we all know that. Time we leave it alone, it cannot be used to compare to epic quality weapons.

    From most comparisons I have seen staves have the advantage with more stats, until you get to rag hammer and shield then it takes the lead.

    Rag hammer + shield > staffs > mh/shield

    This is for normal modes, and I could be wrong easily.

  14. #54
    in general, 1h+shield is going to be better than a staff, assuming similar ilvl and itemization.

    Check this out:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=71039

    vs

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=71359
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=71038

    If you add it up, you'll see they have identical secondary stat values (albeit in different categories)

    But because of the off-hand enchant, you get an extra 34 intellect with the shield.

    Another thing the shield provides is 12k armor + 5% chance to block - i.e. 25% ish less physical damage taken, plus a 5% chance to reduce that further. That's a big deal any time you take physical damage.

    So all things being equal, staff < MH/shield.

    But of course... ilvl trumps this. A 378 staff is going to be better for pve than even a 372 MH/shield combo, especially with the right secondary stats.
    And the legendary goes without saying.

    Personally, I'd nab a chelley's and wait for the shield to drop from beth. Beth is one of the easier bosses in there, plus you're not going to have much competition for it, and the shield is very well itemized.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by medievalman1 View Post
    I have a problem with this. Paladins can't use a staff, they are tied to 1-hander and shield. So, if there's a holy paladin and say, a mage, are we screwed, or is this one of the exceptions that you mentioned?
    Huh? I'm sorry your question doesn't make any sense but I think I know what you are getting at. I'm just saying I wouldn't take a staff over a caster that can't use shields. If a shield drops and I don't have a good MH I would pass to the paladin, but if I have a good MH and I'm using a staff (which would be replaced) I would roll for the shield as I would have a better set overall.

    I don't get stressed out over gear. If it will benefit me I'll use it, but if I know I'm going to replace it then I'll just pass to the person who will be using it longer than I would. I'll wear MH + shield over a staff if the stats are similar because shields look cooler and some armor is better than no armor.

  16. #56
    The misguided notion that Elemental Shaman shouldn't use shields comes from one of the following three sources:

    1. Loot-whores who don't want competition on Staves
    2. People who have learnt from people in category 1 (i.e. they believe it without thinking about it)
    3. People who think that a 1h/shield is more "Shamany", if such a thing even exists.

    If it's an upgrade, use it. If you prefer the looks, use it. If not, don't. Simple.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The difference is once you start making those kinds of exclusions, there's suddenly way, way more staves and such than there needs to be in the loot list.

    If we say Elemental Shamans can't use staves because they have a shield, we're down to 3 options for MH and one OH, and only one of those MH options isn't widely desired by other specs. You've eliminated over half our possible upgrades because we have other options. While a Mage still has 7 weapon choices available, since I'm assuming you're not eliminating THEM from competing for a staff.

    Denying a class a weapon it can use isn't really legitimate. The weapon distribution is done assuming ALL classes that can use it can get it. That's why there are more intellect staves than any other weapon type; more classes can use them than anything else.
    There are offhands that are not shields BTW. (Not sure how to add Wowhead mouseover links in this forum =x)
    Goblet of Anger http://www.wowhead.com/item=71448
    Molten Scream http://www.wowhead.com/item=71462

    I will use whatever gives me the most desirable stats. If a staff drops and its an upgrade to what I have MH+OH, I'll roll on it (keeping other raiders that can use it in consideration of course).
    Last edited by KCee; 2011-08-30 at 11:43 AM.

  18. #58
    In a perfect world scenario where all the gear of relevant ilvl is freely available to you, i am sliiightly tempted to believe a 1h+shield is better, just because you get extra 40 int from the OH enchant AND powertorrent ontop of that.
    Now sticking to that combo is by no means necessary. If a staff is a pretty substantial upgrade then by all means go for it.

    P.S. I miss the old days of 2handed int maces. Those were the good days i tell you

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Adoris View Post
    P.S. I miss the old days of 2handed int maces. Those were the good days i tell you
    wasnt the last one in like... AQ20?

    edit: oh well, looks like there was one in AQ40 and one in old naxx and there are two greens from tBC questing
    Last edited by Sarevokcz; 2011-08-30 at 01:07 PM.

  20. #60
    Staves seems to be easier to get this tier than anything else. I think I will be grabbing a Shoravon instead of waiting for a Kogun and ultimately a Dragonwrath. There were some bias in WoTLK as only shields could have a spellpower enchant on it so the difference between MH + Shield vs Staff is even bigger than it is now.

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