Help with healing sinestra?

[Lestrang]

Well, i insisted on my guild to go to Sinestra because me and the atonement priest really need the trinket as it is BiS.

We had many tries on it before this patch on 25man, we had multiple 2-6% wipes, but never a kill. after patch, and for a duration of a week or two where i was not totally available, guildies made a 10man group and killed it twice, then they stopped.

Now officers are telling me they doubt i can heal it =.=

So well .. need thoughts, ideas, things i should notice and be aware of from experienced people..
I am probably not gonna be on dispelling duty, So, remembering from 25mans, the big amount of damage that comes with breathes, will holy radiance and LoD be enough to heal people up if they are relatively close?
Also i downloaded this addon "Sinestra Wrack helper" but am not sure how it works (i need to be aware of timers incase other healer gets orbs), i use default blizzard frames so well i have hard time seeing debuffs.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...estrang/simple

any help/tips/notes are appreciated


Edit: the priest is probably gonna go shadow and help with shields/dispells in last phase, so am probably gonna heal with a resto druid or resto shaman

[eternalwhitemoon]

Considering you massively overgear the content, I'd be pretty insulted by being told I'm "unable to heal it" if I were you.

That said, I can only speak for general 10m raiding. HR and LoD are only really excellent when you're stacked tightly like on Staghelm during scorpion phases. The positional requirements of both are pretty strict, and it's hard for LoD to hit all targets in 10m unless they are stacked up or straight in a line in front of you.

For 10m, I would drop Glyph of Divine Favor and replace it with Glyph of Word of Glory. In many cases, from my experience, the extra 10 seconds on DF is usually overkill as the burst you were healing through is over by then. With the buff to WoG, it can hit for a pretty respectable amount, especially if you're glyphed for it, and having that instant burst healing is always welcome (especially since it's free). Also consider the massive haste buff from Calen does negate some of the awesomeness of DF.

[Deleted]

For sinestra i would go for the speed spec instead of WoG spec. you basickly dont have spare gcd to use it anyway and speed is nice for kiting orbs

[eternalwhitemoon]

For sinestra i would go for the speed spec instead of WoG spec. you basickly dont have spare gcd to use it anyway and speed is nice for kiting orbs

Or you can keep the spec and go Lavawalker to boots. Mastery isn't as garbage as it used to be.

[Lestrang]

Don't waste GCDs trying to build Holy Power with Holy Shocks and LoDing in p3 (unless you're running with Orbs). Don't waste GCDs on anything other than Divine Light. Just stand in one place and spam your Divine Light button, that's all you do really.

Yes, i understand this, thanks for re notifying me. I'd like some more help regarding first phases thought, because am almost pretty sure i can handle most of raid with the haste buff and using some cooldowns.

Considering you massively overgear the content, I'd be pretty insulted by being told I'm "unable to heal it" if I were you.

That said, I can only speak for general 10m raiding. HR and LoD are only really excellent when you're stacked tightly like on Staghelm during scorpion phases. The positional requirements of both are pretty strict, and it's hard for LoD to hit all targets in 10m unless they are stacked up or straight in a line in front of you.

For 10m, I would drop Glyph of Divine Favor and replace it with Glyph of Word of Glory. In many cases, from my experience, the extra 10 seconds on DF is usually overkill as the burst you were healing through is over by then. With the buff to WoG, it can hit for a pretty respectable amount, especially if you're glyphed for it, and having that instant burst healing is always welcome (especially since it's free). Also consider the massive haste buff from Calen does negate some of the awesomeness of DF.

I am really insulted that is why am trying to gather as much info as i can so i can prove them totally wrong, i am not sure how to change their opinion thought, being number one healer on heroic nefarian in 359 gear while others are 372, or getting logs every week.. idk really =.=
Anyway, Well i guess this is true, but in phase 3, i won't be caring about 10 seconds extra from divine favor but won't be using WoG as well. That leaves it for the use earlier, won't Divine favor be of more use as a CD to heal people at back, beacon a tank, heal calen up with holy lights since i won't be getting any HP from tower of radiance and most of heals will be focused on calen..

[eternalwhitemoon]

...in phase 3, i won't be caring about 10 seconds extra from divine favor but won't be using WoG as well. That leaves it for the use earlier, won't Divine favor be of more use as a CD to heal people at back, beacon a tank, heal calen up with holy lights since i won't be getting any HP from tower of radiance and most of heals will be focused on calen..

In general, I find the WoG glyph to be more useful than the DF glyph, because of what I mentioned earlier. When I was glyphed for DF, the burst healing I was doing was over with in the first 20 seconds, leaving that last 10 wasted. WoG glyph gives me more overall throughput.

I want to put it out there that while I personally do 10H raiding, I have not healed Sinestra yet, so encounter specific tips are not my thing. I'm giving you info on a more general scale.

If Rhash is convinced that you can just never use WoG on Sinestra, then that's up to his experience; he's killed it. I just find it hard to believe you don't have time for large free instant casts in a bursty fight with lots of movement.

Edit: For further clarification, it's not like you can't use DF. You probably should, in fact, before Calen gives you his buff. I'm just saying that the 10 seconds off a 3 minute CD is not going to add up quite like the 10% healing to WoG, even if you never WoG in phase 3. In 10m, you should be using WoG rather than LoD in most situations, because your raiders are often too spread out for LoD.

[Deleted]

If Rhash is convinced that you can just never use WoG on Sinestra, then that's up to his experience; he's killed it. I just find it hard to believe you don't have time for large free instant casts in a bursty fight with lots of movement.

Ofc you can use and even i use it if im running and ppl is low. i just dont use Wog spec for it.

For sinestra i would go for the speed spec instead of WoG spec. you basickly dont have spare gcd to use it anyway and speed is nice for kiting orbs
Or you can keep the spec and go Lavawalker to boots.

Yes you can do that. but the speed buff you gain from talents is faster. From my experience of sinestra 10man hc is less time you move more healing you do. Like i said its just my personal experience. With 2 healers it can be quite hectic at times when you have to move and have 8 wracks to heal + fire breath is coming so just make a raid cd rotation for that

[eternalwhitemoon]

Yes you can do that. but the speed buff you gain from talents is faster =)

Technically yes. However hpallies do have two sprints in Speed of Light. With that and Lavawalker, movement really shouldn't be an issue.

I just think in a 10m healing situation like this the OP is going to do better overall by keeping the WoG spec and using other tools for movement. Did you kill it on 10 or 25, just curious?

Edit:

From my experience of sinestra 10man hc is less time you move more healing you do. Like i said its just my personal experience. With 2 healers it can be quite hectic at times when you have to move and have 8 wracks to heal + fire breath is coming so just make a raid cd rotation for that

Of course your experience trumps my generalization here, but instants are great for when you do have to move.

As far as CDs go, I would suggest you download something like Hermes, OP, so you can track what cooldowns are available by whom. That way you guys can work out a solid rotation, see when things like Mana Tide Totem are up, and things like that. It's really helpful!

[natijs4]

Yes, i understand this, thanks for re notifying me. I'd like some more help regarding first phases thought, because am almost pretty sure i can handle most of raid with the haste buff and using some cooldowns.




I am really insulted that is why am trying to gather as much info as i can so i can prove them totally wrong, i am not sure how to change their opinion thought, being number one healer on heroic nefarian in 359 gear while others are 372, or getting logs every week.. idk really =.=
Anyway, Well i guess this is true, but in phase 3, i won't be caring about 10 seconds extra from divine favor but won't be using WoG as well. That leaves it for the use earlier, won't Divine favor be of more use as a CD to heal people at back, beacon a tank, heal calen up with holy lights since i won't be getting any HP from tower of radiance and most of heals will be focused on calen..

Its hard to give specific advice on this fight since there are so many different ways to do it and each encounter can changed based on who is getting wrack first in each cycle. The only thing I can suggest is push the first wrack as far as you can with as many cd's as you can. Healing with a resto sham, we were able to each take one of the wrack targets once it spread to 2 people and we were able to push that pretty deep as well, making sure to spam them as breaths were coming.

Also, why are you healing Calen?

[Lestrang]

Its hard to give specific advice on this fight since there are so many different ways to do it and each encounter can changed based on who is getting wrack first in each cycle. The only thing I can suggest is push the first wrack as far as you can with as many cd's as you can. Healing with a resto sham, we were able to each take one of the wrack targets once it spread to 2 people and we were able to push that pretty deep as well, making sure to spam them as breaths were coming.

Also, why are you healing Calen?

Am not sure i will be the one healing him yet, but i assumed that one healer handles all the mess at the back (calen and tank?)

[Nillo]

In general, I find the WoG glyph to be more useful than the DF glyph, because of what I mentioned earlier. When I was glyphed for DF, the burst healing I was doing was over with in the first 20 seconds, leaving that last 10 wasted. WoG glyph gives me more overall throughput.

The Breath on Sinestra has about 20-25 seconds cd and matches very well with HR => DF will boost 2 of your Holy Radiance making it decent both in p1 and p3. On the other hand the WoG glyph is almost completely useless because you won't be using WoG after P1.

---------- Post added 2011-08-29 at 09:24 PM ----------

I just think in a 10m healing situation like this the OP is going to do better overall by keeping the WoG spec and using other tools for movement. Did you kill it on 10 or 25, just curious?

You shouldn't be using using either of those 2 skills for movement - also as I said: WoG is useless after P1 (and even there LoD may be a better use of HP).
You don't need to spec into PoJ for it but it's certainly a lot more useful than the WoG spec for her....

---------- Post added 2011-08-29 at 09:26 PM ----------

Also, why are you healing Calen?

Last time I checked healing Calen reduced the time it needs to get to "omlette time" (the time where you are able to attack the eggs)

---------- Post added 2011-08-29 at 09:34 PM ----------

Now more on topic:

Edit: the priest is probably gonna go shadow and help with shields/dispells in last phase, so am probably gonna heal with a resto druid or resto shaman

I recommend the following: 1 of you takes care of the dispel (and only heals 1 the boss tank), while the other healer focusses on the healing part (taking care of most of the raid healing and the add tank) - I also recommend announcing to your Shadow Priest to mass dispel each time a set of 4 debuffs have to be dispelled.

If you really want to min/max for the encounter (not that it should be necessary) reforge away from spirit (unless you take way too long for p1 and p2 you won't be needing much mana) and haste (you're already soft capped at 25% raidbuffed), get a PoJ spec (because having to move as a healer here is very dangerous and should be reduced as much as possible) and don't listen to eternalwhitemoon >_>

---------- Post added 2011-08-29 at 09:39 PM ----------

1) I am probably not gonna be on dispelling duty, So, remembering from 25mans, the big amount of damage that comes with breathes, will holy radiance and LoD be enough to heal people up if they are relatively close?
2) Also i downloaded this addon "Sinestra Wrack helper" but am not sure how it works (i need to be aware of timers incase other healer gets orbs), i use default blizzard frames so well i have hard time seeing debuffs.

1) I mostly heal it with DL and use HR pretty much on cd (breath come at around every 20-25 sec anyway) - beacon on the boss tank and spam dl on the offtank when noone is taking damage.
2) Well it should show you some colored bars with damage numbers for each player - you should dispel at ~ 20k ticks in p3 if your other healer is running (I made some bad experiences when trying to have a look at it myself while healing => the other healer who is on dispel duty announces dispels for me or mass dispels for our shadow priest as needed)

[Lestrang]

Thanks Nillo for the detailed information, this is very useful for me.
I'd like to ask here though, you said reforge away from haste and spirit, to what then? Mastery?

[Nillo]

Thanks Nillo for the detailed information, this is very useful for me.
I'd like to ask here though, you said reforge away from haste and spirit, to what then? Mastery?

Haven't done any math on this, so I really can't tell (both crit and mastery are fairly valuable in p3 thanks to low casttime ,high overhealing and a "short" cd raid aoe).
Anyway IMO at your gear level you shouldn't really have trouble healing Sinestra even without reforging.
Some things about how I heal:
P1:
use glyphed DF for the second breath so it should be up to empower another HR at the third breath.
Use AW after you activate the HR for the third breath
Aura Mastery P1/P3 as needed (usually when you're struggling with debuffs and a breath is coming or either of you are running)
Use BoSac on the add tank while you run back to Calen.
There's plenty of situations for Divine Prot (You getting the first debuff, you having to run and needing to get back in heal range Asap, you being low before a breath,...)

P2: regen some mana once you are in calen's bubble if needed. (the whelps will deal no damage in there)
Heal Calen until the 2 bosses have their talk "You are weak" "No I'm not" - remember to refresh beacon on your boss-tank. Pray that your dps are able to kill the eggs before they get shielded again and stun the wyrmkin that spawns once it tries to cast that raid-wiping spell. (if you don't manage to kill the adds in 1 go you will need to assign stunners and enrage dispels to that add)

P3:
Spam DL on the raid and Add-tank. HR every breath. Also use CDs as needed (DF is only really useful for HR here so make sure it affects 2 casts of it)

[PhilCosby]

Thanks Nillo. I hope to put some of your advice to practice one day. Oh my lazy, but lovable, guild.

[Deleted]

Honestly the hard part of the fight is learning how and when and why to dispell, so if you don't have to dispell you won't have much things to think about and don't need many advices.
Ask your healer mate to tell you when he is dispelling, heal the wrack targets when they are close to be dispelled (when the debuff will tick for a lot). Your beacon will be enough to heal the boss tank past p1 with constant 1s cast DL spam. Be careful on the adds' tank health when he is tanking 2 waves. Use raid CD when there is 4 wrack to dispell.
If you are on dispell duty you will need some experience to handle it well, and written advices won't be enough. You need to know when your target won't survive the next tick, how long you can make the first wrack last, etc. It depends on who gets it, breath timers, available CDs, moment of the fight, and can't be planified exactly.

If the dispelling healer does his job well the fight is quite easy when you're overgearing it. The only time it will get harder for the second healer is if the dispeller gets an orb and gets out of range of the raid; you'll have to heal and dispell correctly and that's why you still have to know approximately when you must dispell.

[natijs4]

Honestly the hard part of the fight is learning how and when and why to dispell, so if you don't have to dispell you won't have much things to think about and don't need many advices.
Ask your healer mate to tell you when he is dispelling, heal the wrack targets when they are close to be dispelled (when the debuff will tick for a lot). Your beacon will be enough to heal the boss tank past p1 with constant 1s cast DL spam. Be careful on the adds' tank health when he is tanking 2 waves. Use raid CD when there is 4 wrack to dispell.
If you are on dispell duty you will need some experience to handle it well, and written advices won't be enough. You need to know when your target won't survive the next tick, how long you can make the first wrack last, etc. It depends on who gets it, breath timers, available CDs, moment of the fight, and can't be planified exactly.

If the dispelling healer does his job well the fight is quite easy when you're overgearing it. The only time it will get harder for the second healer is if the dispeller gets an orb and gets out of range of the raid; you'll have to heal and dispell correctly and that's why you still have to know approximately when you must dispell.

This is pretty much the advice I would give but I couldn't put it into words that well. One thing I would add, is try to have a set number that you are going to aim to dispel at, so people know when to use their defensive cooldowns to push it as far as possible. We would aim for 24 seconds in phase 1, 22 seconds in phase 3. So people would have barkskin/divine protection/shield wall up until that 24th second. If the wrack target has no defensive cooldowns, you can use hand of sacrifice, but be careful with it as if you have sac up during a breath, you can kill yourself.

The biggest key on this fight is communication on the fight. Your raid leader can't call things out like most fights because there's no way he knows each individual's situation.