Should I tell my guildie?

[Rotted]

You should tell him for sure and completely slap self for even thinking of not helping,

back when I was raiding, each class would have their own class channel (minus the healers and tank) so we could talk to each other and help each other and work out each others problems, keep it between the class;s

[Raht]

Jesus this annoys me. Outside of PvP clicking does not = bad.

Clever use of macros and an ability to mouse move when necessary is all you need to rival anyone in PvE.

I click and I do just fine. Ofc you need to be able to click your abilities in the correct order at the correct times but the point stands.

No matter how fantastic one can be at clicking, binding will virtually always be optimal. Always.

[Jessicka]

Tell him, maybe that 7K helps you progress.

Or, that that last 1% wipe you had might not have been if... Proven to be a very effective means of pursuading people to look at their game. Yeah, they'll probably feel shitty about it to begin with but once they see an improvement in themselves, they'll get over it.

[Deleted]

Jesus this annoys me. Outside of PvP clicking does not = bad.

Clever use of macros and an ability to mouse move when necessary is all you need to rival anyone in PvE.

I click and I do just fine. Ofc you need to be able to click your abilities in the correct order at the correct times but the point stands.

Every ability sounds bad, though. Reaching 1-4 shouldn't be hard, then you have the main spells for most classes. Oh well, his decision.

OT: Yes, you should tell your guildie (I read the post).

[dalliah1]

You should tell him for sure and completely slap self for even thinking of not helping,

back when I was raiding, each class would have their own class channel (minus the healers and tank) so we could talk to each other and help each other and work out each others problems, keep it between the class;s

It's not that I didn't want to help but is there helping someone that can't grasp the basics and fundamentals of their class? :S

Oh and i'd rather not post a WOL because I wouldn't want to cause any drama among the guild but I looked at his dot uptimes earlier and he had about 88% on all of em and mine are at 98% on our normal domo kill last night I had 800k damage done by incinerate and he had 133k which is wtf unless he had extremely bad rng

[Soisoisoi]

Jesus this annoys me. Outside of PvP clicking does not = bad.

Clever use of macros and an ability to mouse move when necessary is all you need to rival anyone in PvE.

I click and I do just fine. Ofc you need to be able to click your abilities in the correct order at the correct times but the point stands.

Actually it does... If you're min-maxing you should not be clicking. There's no argument about it, it's slower, simple as.


OT: You're doing heroic raids and you need to ask on here if you think you should help your raid progress or hinder it? To clarify, by help your raid I mean get him removed OR sorted out, depends on how strict your guild is. If he doesn't know his class by the time you're doing heroic raids... Probably better to remove him

[Magisleeper]

I think I know where your coming from OP, I am assuming this guy is just plain bad, always did bad dps saw you were a certain spec doing alot more copied your spec still doesnt know what hes doing and likely wouldnt even benifit if you took the time to lay it all out for him amirite?

To everyone getting all /angryface at the OP for asking the question its a matter of time and effort, you wouldnt teach somehow how to fix an engine if they were gonna play gameboy while your elbow deep in oil, and thats how it feels sometimes. If your in a guild doing heroic raids you expect maybe a 2-3k dps difference dps between the same class at most.

Theres a big difference between sharing a tip about how to maximize dps or when to hit a trinket or little stuff like that and trying to teach someone how to play their class.

Not before you rage on me I am looking at this from a hardmode progression raider's point of view and I always talk class strat even with people from other guilds, and I am usually the only person to give serious answers to new players who ask stuff in trade, but its kind of a 'wtf moment' when you feel like your about to have to explain the basics of a class someone is supposed to already know.

[dalliah1]

I think I know where your coming from OP, I am assuming this guy is just plain bad, always did bad dps saw you were a certain spec doing alot more copied your spec still doesnt know what hes doing and likely wouldnt even benifit if you took the time to lay it all out for him amirite?

To everyone getting all /angryface at the OP for asking the question its a matter of time and effort, you wouldnt teach somehow how to fix an engine if they were gonna play gameboy while your elbow deep in oil, and thats how it feels sometimes. If your in a guild doing heroic raids you expect maybe a 2-3k dps difference dps between the same class at most.

Theres a big difference between sharing a tip about how to maximize dps or when to hit a trinket or little stuff like that and trying to teach someone how to play their class.

Not before you rage on me I am looking at this from a hardmode progression raider's point of view and I always talk class strat even with people from other guilds, and I am usually the only person to give serious answers to new players who ask stuff in trade, but its kind of a 'wtf moment' when you feel like your about to have to explain the basics of a class someone is supposed to already know.

Thank you! You get it at least I can't hold somebody's hand and tell them when to pop their cd's, etc etc because it's never going to be the same from a fight to fight basis.I change my glyphs on almost every fight because I have a general understanding of what I have to do and what will net me more dps in the end and some things you can teach to a player but some others you cannot. Funny thing is, I click most of my spells too, not gonna lie (Yeah i'm bad!) but if it was a small margin of dps like 2-3k dps, I feel like he would only be doing a few minor things wrong but 8k dps last night on Domo.. I'm only asking if i should help him because I feel like there's no possible way that i can fix that, the dps gap is huge. I can maybe help him gain 2k dps but there's no possible way that I can make him do as much if not more dps than me

[Penguin FTW]

If you aren't willing to help someone, why are you willing to raid with them?

If they are seriously so bad you think they are beyond help you should let your raid leader know. Either you're in a more casual guild where that isn't as important and you're stressing over nothing, or you're in a more serious guild where the guy needs to be kicked because he's an anchor holding everyone else back.

[dalliah1]

If you aren't willing to help someone, why are you willing to raid with them?

If they are seriously so bad you think they are beyond help you should let your raid leader know. Either you're in a more casual guild where that isn't as important and you're stressing over nothing, or you're in a more serious guild where the guy needs to be kicked because he's an anchor holding everyone else back.

-_- I am willing to help though, you're in Difw. You of all people should know that 8k dps is a huge gap and can not be helped with advice alone

[Deleted]

yea dont tell the person in YOUR OWN raid group about their minor mistake that is costing them a ton of dps..... but dont cry when your prgoress suffers

[Penguin FTW]

You're willing you just don't think it's even possible and therefore not worth you time? How is that any better >.<

[Khadjid]

Since your logs aren't actually difficult to find, I thought I'd take a peak and see just how bad this lock supposedly is. This other lock seem to have caught the basics of the spec, however he's bad at paying attention to short cooldowns and dot durations. Apart from the choice of pet it's only a lot of small things like not using HoG on cooldown, dot uptimes, lower item level, using NF over MWC, not timing DG with procs and generally a lot of small things adding up to a lot.

I would try teach him the small neat things like optimal usage of DG and advice him to watch his timers more closely and work proactive instead of reactive. If that helps him, that is good, if not then at least you made some small effort in helping.

Here's a comparison for those that might be interested:

[dalliah1]

Since your logs aren't actually difficult to find, I thought I'd take a peak and see just how bad this lock supposedly is. This other lock seem to have caught the basics of the spec, however he's bad at paying attention to short cooldowns and dot durations. Apart from the choice of pet it's only a lot of small things like not using HoG on cooldown, dot uptimes, lower item level, using NF over MWC, not timing DG with procs and generally a lot of small things adding up to a lot.

I would try teach him the small neat things like optimal usage of DG and advice him to watch his timers more closely and work proactive instead of reactive. If that helps him, that is good, if not then at least you made some small effort in helping.

Here's a comparison for those that might be interested:

Tried talking to him a bit and didn't get much response out of him so i'm just gonna let it ride and ignore it but thanks for everyone's opinion

[bvheide]

Jesus this annoys me. Outside of PvP clicking does not = bad.

Clever use of macros and an ability to mouse move when necessary is all you need to rival anyone in PvE.

I click and I do just fine. Ofc you need to be able to click your abilities in the correct order at the correct times but the point stands.

Say what you like, but you're a worse player for clicking. Imagine where you'd be if you key-bound those clever clever little macros of yours.

It's simply established usability fact that clicking is slower than hitting a key.

Don't lie and say that people can be "all they can be" if they're clickers. They can't.

It's not to say that nothing should be a clicked ability, but if the dude is clicking and doing 22k AND not using a Felhunter...well, frankly, you should be worried that he may be a better warlock than you.

---------- Post added 2011-08-31 at 01:49 AM ----------

-_- I am willing to help though, you're in Difw. You of all people should know that 8k dps is a huge gap and can not be helped with advice alone

This is pure crap. 8k dps is a huge gap...and it CAN be helped by advice alone.

[announced]

he must be doing shit terrible if hes doing bad in demo. that specs awesome for aoe and decent for single target.. its even less complex than affliction. be sure to help ur guildie.

[EuBloodSolder]

I bet he just doenst know how to bug the doomguard properly and OP is too selfish to share tips and tricks.

[dabros]

Only time I wouldn't try to help someone is if they're ona those "I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING! IT'S MY 15$ A MONTH, I PLAYZ HOW I WANTZ!" people... and if he's one of those people, better to replace him >.>

Jesus this annoys me. Outside of PvP clicking does not = bad.

Clever use of macros and an ability to mouse move when necessary is all you need to rival anyone in PvE.

I click and I do just fine. Ofc you need to be able to click your abilities in the correct order at the correct times but the point stands.

you mean like this guy

[mstreurman]

Since your logs aren't actually difficult to find, I thought I'd take a peak and see just how bad this lock supposedly is. This other lock seem to have caught the basics of the spec, however he's bad at paying attention to short cooldowns and dot durations. Apart from the choice of pet it's only a lot of small things like not using HoG on cooldown, dot uptimes, lower item level, using NF over MWC, not timing DG with procs and generally a lot of small things adding up to a lot.

I would try teach him the small neat things like optimal usage of DG and advice him to watch his timers more closely and work proactive instead of reactive. If that helps him, that is good, if not then at least you made some small effort in helping.

Here's a comparison for those that might be interested:

Taking a look at that log, I see lock1 doing 99 shadowbolts during this fight and lock2 73, so my guess is: (s)He clicks shadowbolt (not spamclicking), waits 'til it's cast and clicks again. The other abilities (s)he's used are nearly the same amount as lock1's. Make him spam his mousebutton/abilitykeybind and his DPS will go up bigtime... It also looks to me (s)he's going out of the way and move's to the boss to make shadowflame hit, tell him to use that time moving to use his main damage spell (being shadowbolt).

Edit: I think you can disregard this post, and turn it the other way around, looks like lock2's immolation aura hits for 200k dps more and is using felflame to up his dps, also it seems lock1 doesn't use his molten core proc very often (9 vs 29)

[Mindcrime]

A big part of any progression guild is communication. If its you and this other warlock, take time to talk between each other and figure out why hes doing 10k less then you. My guild has separate class channels for our raids. Im one of three warlocks in our 25 and we have a dedicated "dmlock" channel that the three of us join (and a boomkin that has a lock alt) and we talk all amongst each other, from DI targets to best strategies for each fight. We also have dmheal and dmtank as well as dmmage or dmbuttonmash as i like to call it :P

Try something similar and give suggestions and tips!