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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner Rabioso's Avatar
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    Frost DW: Unholy Presence = LIES?

    Hey, for some reason my Frost DK does more in Frost presence then he does in unholy presence... I've been hearing everywhere that unholy is better, although I've done actual raids with Frost AND Unholy presence, and Frost always seems to push the meters higher. I'm not relying on dummy dps here, real raiding stuff here.

    My DK's name is Thelnor on the realm Cho'gall, I can't link his armory page due to the fact that I'm a newbie here

    if there's any stat or spec thing. For attacks I use outbreak to open, obl to high RP, dump with FS (using HB on rime procs), keeping horn on CD, and using Plague Strike to refresh Blood Plague as needed because i use Glyph of Howling Blast.

    Help is VERY appreciated, thanks

  2. #2
    Provide some numbers please, because for all I know you are doing 14k DPS in UH and 17k in Frost. If you don't then this thread should be closed because it does not provide any information for any discussion to take place.

    For example:

    -> Frost DK, UH presence ilvl 373 EQ 100% PVE

    Baleroc: Average 27k, highest 30k
    Majordomo: Average 24k, highest 28k
    Ragnaros: Average 22k, highest 25k

  3. #3
    Depends on your gear and on the encounter in question. Frost presence does very well when there's more than one target. Also depends on the player, some people just play better with the longer GCD.

    How many times have you tested this? I am inclined to put this down to RNG, i know that my dps fluctuates by about 8k depending on how lucky i am with runic empowerment etc.

  4. #4
    Got some logs to compare your DPS from one week in Frost presence to another week in Unholy presence?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Are you stacking mastery or haste?

    Mastery = FP
    Haste = UP

  6. #6
    You cant use all the runes and RP in frost...
    The 1 sec GCD is just too powerful given the way haste works now.

    Anyways, Frost is better in times of heavy AoE.

  7. #7
    The only way Frost Presence would be even viable for Dual Wield Frost would be if you maintained a heavy mastery build, which you do not. Even then, it still falls behind those playing in Unholy Presence in equivalent gear. As stated previously by others, Frost Presence may play better for you on a fight with multiple targets where you are spreading your diseases properly. For maintaining optimal DPS, Unholy Presence will reign supreme for Dual Wield Frost. Give up the old play style of using Frost Presence as Dual Wield and get with the times.


    On a side note...
    I've noticed is your gear is less than optimal in terms of gems, enchants, and reforging. You may want to look into it, just saying.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ainevar View Post
    . Even then, it still falls behind those playing in Unholy Presence in equivalent gear
    Enough with the bandwagoning quetes, its all about gear and execution rather than "BiS theorycrafting".

  9. #9
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    Enough with the bandwagoning quetes, its all about gear and execution rather than "BiS theorycrafting".
    .....That's kinda why he said equivalent gear? Assuming equal gear and skill, UP with haste will perform better on a single target fight.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    Enough with the bandwagoning quetes, its all about gear and execution rather than "BiS theorycrafting".
    Yah with good gear and skill you can do high dps doing almost anything....
    Of course, ull do more if you accept the norms instead of trying to be a special snowflake.

  11. #11
    What raids are you talking about? From looking at your armory you are 11/12 normal modes for T11 and 0/7 T12.

    -Kuzuak

  12. #12
    yeah screw the theorycrafter, I dps in blood presence cause I'm such a freemind, my freewill is so strong !!!111!1

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    yeah screw the theorycrafter, I dps in blood presence cause I'm such a freemind, my freewill is so strong !!!111!1
    Don't forget to mention that you use rune strike as RP-dump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genganger View Post
    Often I just open the fridge instead of turning the lights on in the kitchen. I like that.

  14. #14
    Until the gear catches up to the point that haste no longer provides a direct benefit (Haste cap) then we generally will not go for straight mastery. It would take some very strong mobs and large health pools along with a haste cap to force us into Frost Pres again. You can do great dps in Frost pres but the DW Frost DKs that are spiking high on those damage logs are doing so because they are in UP. In my experience with helping other DKs you are likely using more KM on Frost Strike than Oblit which is leading you to believe UP is inferior. In a haste build it can be a DPS loss to FS on KM procs.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Art3x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerv View Post
    Depends on your gear and on the encounter in question. Frost presence does very well when there's more than one target. Also depends on the player, some people just play better with the longer GCD.

    How many times have you tested this? I am inclined to put this down to RNG, i know that my dps fluctuates by about 8k depending on how lucky i am with runic empowerment etc.
    Unless you go afk your dps should not fluctuate by 8k ever...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    yeah screw the theorycrafter, I dps in blood presence cause I'm such a freemind, my freewill is so strong !!!111!1
    And you're a glaring example of bullshit. Frost and Unholy have been, since Unholy picked up popularity again, been so close to each other you can largely write off most real-world samples' differences as margin of error.

  17. #17
    I've just made a custom reforging for this spec not long ago,
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...helad/advanced

    Tested it on Beth'tilac, i shred the crap outta the spiders and the Drones died faster than i remember.
    I'ts kinda fun to see 5 crit attacks in raw (got around 21% crit chance with all raid buffs).
    My Frost Strikes hit hard (VERY close to obliterate) and my HB from what i saw hit 40k+. Does it eliminate the need of Obliterate at all? personally i'm using obliterates in sake of RP regen( i prefer to dump all my RP on FS before i use obliterate and its also true to Rime proc, no point casting HB on full RP gauge).
    I was doing 28.5k~ at the end of the fight, i never done so much damage as DW xD

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Art3x's Avatar
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    There is a heavy mastery build dubbed the shadowfrost build on EJ that uses HB as a larger than usual portion of it's dmg. I haven't tried it though.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Art3x View Post
    There is a heavy mastery build dubbed the shadowfrost build on EJ that uses HB as a larger than usual portion of it's dmg. I haven't tried it though.
    It's not really a specific "build" as it uses the standard talent spec. It's just a modified priority system that uses HB for all/most Frost/Death runes.
    There's not a whole lot of benefit to using it on single target, however, you can and should switch to it for AOE situations. (you should already be doing this)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gwraith/simple (8/8 H T13; 7/7 H T12 - F.U. Ragnaros)
    Quote Originally Posted by kumduh View Post
    @Wingwraith: You can haz a point too, but only because you admit you're a tool!

  20. #20
    Mmm this is interesting, DPS with frost presence under heroism is INSANE, i was doing above 30k all the time xD
    If only Blizzard cut the GCD to 0.75 or close it could be PERFECT.

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