Templar Verdict = no longer require Holy Power

[PhilCosby]

Yea was referring to that GC quote in a wrath context.

[Wizzlecrank]

I feel so slow and weak when I go from my frost dk to my ret pally. I find prot to be much more engaging.

[jdfrost]

http://retributionpaladins.com/retri...rom-omebagger/

this guy has some good points and how to fix Ret

[Johnpreston]

Thing is, if it's like all the other redesigns, I'm not so sure what I should feel about it. Because they've gone back and forth so many times it seems they don't know what the hell to do with us....

Know exactly how you feel... Remember this unbroken promise among many:

Crusader Strike is now An Instant strike that deals 110% weapon damage. In addition, if you strike a player while they are casting, their magical damage and healing will be reduced by 50% for 6 sec.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...aladin-changes

I wonder which class got that ability :P

That an the plethora of half baked ideas hurriedly packaged sellotaped together prior to release. But hey who can blame them. Heck we as a class are so good that it has taken three expansions and we are still imbalanced :P.

[Deleted]

If TV didn't require holy power their frequent 50k-60k WoGs in pvp would be even more out of control because you wouldn't have to sacrifice holy power that would otherwise be used in TVs for them.

[Deleted]

Just take away the shared CD of CS and DS, so that we can use them both in our rotation, that should give us more constant damage...

[deef]

A little OT but I want wotlk ret back, I had so much fun in raids.

---------- Post added 2011-09-04 at 11:41 AM ----------

Just take away the shared CD of CS and DS, so that we can use them both in our rotation, that should give us more constant damage...

Yeah with the shit dmg DS is doing it would actually make a good option. Doesn't change the fact HP is shit tho. :/

[Vesoha]

I like cata paladin, just gotta see TV as paladin form of Rogue eviserate, its a nice finisher but only something you use when all the short term buffs are rolling. like rogue keep SnD up paladin keep inq up and only use the finisher when there is nothing of greater importance to use.

Besides if there was no holy power on TV, then whats the point of zealotry. Would have a load of holy power and nothing to use it on.

[zcks]

Have to say I agree with Zealous on this one.

We don't need holy power to be scrapped.

What we need is for the designers to be given the time to actually do their jobs without the management team rushing them, forcing their biases onto the development process or denying the implementation of new abilities that they previously agreed were a necessity for all melee's & all hybrids.

[Bsod]

as one of the player who dont like holy power res system
i really like that idea

[Spacewolf]

I like the idea of freeing up more TV but then we would be legit OP, not to mention we'd have pretty much nothing to spend holy power on. I for one would love more ways to generate holy power. Perhaps a way to generate it at range and melee. IDK, I'm a new ret player so I don't have all the answers. Though, as mentioned several times, it's a shame to go from my terribly geared frost DK that can top DPS with my eyes close in a BH to my ret pally that can struggle through a 5 man.

[Jonuts]

Have to say I agree with Zealous on this one.

We don't need holy power to be scrapped.

What we need is for the designers to be given the time to actually do their jobs without the management team rushing them, forcing their biases onto the development process or denying the implementation of new abilities that they previously agreed were a necessity for all melee's & all hybrids.

Except I don't trust anyone who works on Paladins can do the job. Ergo, removing it is a solution within the realm of their obviously extremely limited abilities.

[Ap0calypse]

Blizzard cant design their way out of a wet paper bag when it comes to the Retribution spec. Theyve proven that every expansion.

[fengosa]

They added holy power to take paladins away from a complete boring Cooldown based rotation.

It was implemented incorrectly (It should have been more of a rage-style system) but I have faith they'll continue to tweak it.

I haven't played ret but one of my guildmates just macroed his entire rotation into a single button in wrath. This was another issue that HP tried to solve as well.

[Talen]

Blizzard cant design their way out of a wet paper bag when it comes to the Retribution spec. Theyve proven that every expansion.

Unfortuantely, what they've shown is that they can.

Believe it or not, I think a LOT of the ideas that the designers implemented for Ret in Cat were good. Very good. And well worth implementing.

Where I disagree with them is simple - not all of them should have been implemented. Too many good ideas simply led to a situation where mechanics clashed. Had the class underwent the same level of polishing as most other classes seemed to get, then a lot of what many deem to be wrong would have been removed in beta.

Zealotry is a prime example. It just didn't work well. Even now, it still doesn't and its really of value because the rotation is very poor without it; if the rotation is ever fixed, Zealotrys worth as a talent would drop to zero.

As it stands, Paladins got the Divine retribution talent in one of the last, if not last, Alphas builds. This led onto Holy Power in Beta with a slightly delayed entry for the class. But...despite the introduction of what was billed as a new resource system, something that should have required a lot of work, a lot of tweaking, the class essentially remained stable after that. The new UI element came. GC stated we'd love the new Improved Judgement talent. A few talents were tweaked or moved.

But that's really it. The development work that should have taken place to integrate the new resource doesn't seem to have happened. The polishing that would have/should have removed all those clashing mechanics didn't occur. Feedback on various issues during the Beta - once again seemed to be ignored, onyl for those problems to raise their heads in Live and require the usual rushed fixes. Hunters focus was worked on for over a year. Rets HP got a few weeks.

Why? Because Blizzard had a cool idea at the end of Alpha, but couldn't put Ret through an Alpha phase all by itself. The time for major changes was gone. Or so it seems. I personally expected the HP system to be an issue throughout the Cat development because of it slate entry. I didn't expect it to be ignored and degraded.

Idea wise, the class has lots of good ideas. But lots of good ideas is worth zip if they don't work well together.

EJL

[Ap0calypse]

Well theyve still lumbered us with burst and thats it. We have no offensive tools still, after how many years now? Thats what I mean, they said they wanted us to be more offensive, but nothing changed. Did they just mean "offensive" as in to offend the playerbase or what?

[Stormdash]

I wish I understood the design reason for having put DS and CS on the same cooldown in the first place -- if the hard-hitting AOE as a single target attack was a problem, couldn't they have just given it the Howling Blast treatment and then just buffed our AOE damage from other sources (as they have eventually now done with Seals of Command/Seal of Righteousness).

Also, I wasn't in beta -- heck, I don't even know if that version of Ret existed on beta -- but I always liked the idea of Holy Shock being baseline and part of a Ret rotation.

For me, that's the thing that Ret is missing -- another button. Maybe it won't feel that way once haste levels get back to 3 sec CS levels, but if they aren't going to (and they may well not, if there's only one more tier?), then I'd hope for another builder button to push and another finisher button to push.

[Szemere]

What was wrong with ret paladins back in wrath?
bring us back to that!!!! =P

My only problem was that it was faceroll xD. I could easily top DPS meters on my bro's account on LK when he had to brb for a bit, never touched a retridin before. Normally I take about 30 minutes to pick up a spec after I get all the gearing and speccing done, but insta-pwning without even my own UI, by spamming random buttons? That's pretty horrible, seeing as I only got a "press these 5 buttons, and press this one if you have nothing else to press"... Wow...
Tbh, I like the new style a lot better, requires some sense of skill

[Talen]

I wish I understood the design reason for having put DS and CS on the same cooldown in the first place

Because then the rotation would be CS>>>>DS;

Why bother? Its one of the problems of not having a secondary resource....without something to hold the abilities in check, a CD can be seen as a necessity and to avoid doing 2 strikes in a rotation where one is planned a shared CD is needed. But Blizzard doesn't want the AoE rotation to be the same as the ST rotation and thats what would happen.

EJL

[Cyriaa]

To the guy comparing Inq to SnD and TV to Evis.
Paladins are not Rogues and we should not be played like one.
It's as simple as that, they really need to change how retadins feel.

I do like how not everybody can pick up a paladin and top dps like szemere reminded us but I feel like there needs to be something done differently.
I'm a paladin, I don't feel like one. I'm not really sure what I feel like.
I think maybe a wimpy warrior that doesn't have nearly as many abilities as I should.
That's a big maybe though.