Taking the step to better audio

[Deleted]

I would like to take the step onto "entry-level" audiophile sound equipment. I'm more specifically looking for a pair of really nice headphones that will more or less blow my mind. To go with that, I'm more than confident that I would need a stand-alone soundcard.

Current system:
I'm using the MSI P67A-GD65 motherboard, which has a built in Realtek ALC892 sound chip. Together with that, I'm using a Plexgear 2.1 speaker system and (when for example watching movies) a Philips MC-M570 stereo system that in my opinion has at least pretty decent sound quality (much better than the Plexgear setup). I'm also using a Logitech G330 (basically only for Skype and Ventrilo) and Philips SHE9550 in-ear headphones.

What I'm looking to get:
I've been looking to take the step into a better audio experience, especially with Battlefield 3 on the horizon. I'm more or less planning to replace the Plexgear 2.1 system with some high-end headphones for games and music. For WoW (where I use no sound) the G330 and Plexgear setup does just fine. My budget stretches around 2500SEK maximum, what that corresponds to in dollars, pounds or euros when it comes to audio equipment I have no clue.

Soundcard:
I am more or less clueless when it comes to soundcards. I have always used the integrated one and been "happy". I was looking at the ASUS Xonar D1 as it is fairly cheap and has some decent reviews attached to it. But does it have all the features I would need? And how much of a difference is there stepping up to a ASUS Xonar Essence STX or a ASUS Xonar D2?

Headphones:
I've been looking at a few different ones:

- AKG K 272 HD: ~1800 SEK
Above my budget, but they seem to be about the best I can get around the 2000 SEK mark. I'm willing to consider them if, of course, the sound experience these offer far exceeds the others.

- Sennheiser HD598: ~1650 SEK
I don't specifically like the look of these, but they have some awesome reviews. They are borderline too expensive for me, but if the sound experience these offer is that much better than others, I might consider it.

- AKG K 242 HD: ~1400 SEK
These I like, a lot. Seems to have great reviews and are usually classified as "entry-level audiophile headphones" by reviewers. They look amazing as well.

- Audio Technica ATH-AD300: ~900 SEK
They seem like a nice price/performance choice, but are below the desired "entry-level audiophile" that I seek. Perhaps they will offer enough gain in quality anyway? I also like the look of these.


Given such an upgrade, how much of a gain in sound quality am I looking at? I was chatting to a friend who is into music development, and he specifically said that it would be like going from the 480p to the 720p option in Youtube on songs like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1FzvRVo3s. Is that a fair estimate?

[Ghâzh]

I don't have anything specific to recommend, I've used these headphones I have at the moment so long that it's hard to compare (sennheiser hd 280 pro).

Do have one advice however. When speaking about quality sound equipment, and especially when on a budget, you don't really have to buy the newest new. Sound technology has developed extremely little in the past 20 years. Technically if you could find unused studio quality headphones from the 90's, they'd be pretty much up to par with same price headphones from 21th, just that they would be considerably cheaper today (if you don't count the antique value).

Doesn't really have to be that radical but, for example, my sennheiser's cost about 150 euros a couple years back and now you can get them for 80-100.

About the sound quality and how big of an upgrade would you notice, that's really up to the listener. When you compare an avarage headphones to the quality, professionally used ones it's not as simple as the more expensive ones sound better.

What they do with the cheaper mainstream models is that they alter them to sound more "enjoyable" to trick you into thinking that they are better than they actually are. An avarage listener doesn't value the precise sound of the high quality studio headphones but just likes to hear the deep, often over-exaggerated basses and the overall "warm" sound. Usually the descants are also partly intentionally, often due to cheaper components, less accurate which can actually sound better cause the sheer majority of today's music is overly mastered and you don't really want to hear everything .

This pretty much means that even though you think you are buying better headphones they might actually sound worse to you because you don't know what to listen to or might not like it. There's really so much good headphones as there are different tastes and people. One might not like what someone else thinks is superior. And to complicate it even more, the reviews of headphones and speakers are usually made by professionals that listen and test sound equipment for their job, thus, resulting in them having sometimes completly different opinion of what is good than what you'd have. The thing you can do though is to walk to the store with an Ipod and some of your favorite tracks and try out different models and see what you think of them.

Guess that was more then just one advice I get descriptive when speaking about music.

[BicycleMafioso]

Why the HD598?
http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=734934
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQ8PzBrHXE

[Deleted]

Sound is a very subjective topic and hence giving objective advice is always tricky.

PS: 2500 SEK are about 280 Euros and or over 300 USD.

If you're a Gamer and want a headset over regular headphones then IMO the Asus Xonar One + Sennheiser PC 360 is the best you could hope for.

There's even an official combo set called Asus Xonar Xense that combines an Asus SPU with a Sennheiser PC 350 for around 200 euros. But that's all I'm going to say on that topic as I'm no audiophile.

All I can recommend looking out for is EAX 5.0 support.

[jonny888]

Did EAX support not die a death when Vista came out and Microsoft re-wrote the Audio stack?

[Adappy]

afaik EAX has fallen out of favor in recent games, and to get "true" EAX 5.0" support you'll need a Creative card, which tend to not get the best reviews (they have some decent cards, but there are also several to avoid)

As far as "how much of an improvement will I get" that depends on how good your current setup is. (I'm not familiar with those speakers) In my experiences, upgrading the headphones/speakers made the most difference for music listening, while a sound card (I'm using an ASUS Xonar DX, the PCI-express version of the D1 you mentioned in the OP) made a more noticeable difference in games (especially BC2) when 8 channel input was selected.

Unfortunately headphones are very subjective in many aspects. What sounds good to one might be what someone else wants... what's comfortable to one person might not be to another, etc. I really like my Audio-Technica ATH-AD700's on the sound quality front, BUT, they're not the most comfortable (I have to keep a rubber band slipped over the "wings" that sit on top of your head otherwise the bottom of the headphones want to dig into my jaw) and the bass response isn't the best. For me they work fine, but I can see others not liking them. The only thing you can really go on before purchasing (aside from physically trying the headphones out in person) is reviews from online retailers and headphone review sites such as www.head-fi.org.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I will be heading out to music stores to check out different options.

@Tetris
Not sure I want to take my brand new, rather expensive, headphones and tear them apart. Besides, many comments on that video claim that the sound is basically the same - some even claim that it's worse.

@Adappy
My current Plexgear 2.1 system is just your average generic computer speakers. They sound alright for what they are, but I can clearly notice a difference by plugging in my Philips MC-M570. They sound about the same compared to my in-ear plugs I use with my MP3.


For a soundcard, how much better is it to go with a ASUS Xonar D1 over the integrated one? How much better is the Xonar D2 over the D1? Are there other options available in the ~500-900 SEK range?

[BicycleMafioso]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I will be heading out to music stores to check out different options.

@Tetris
Not sure I want to take my brand new, rather expensive, headphones and tear them apart. Besides, many comments on that video claim that the sound is basically the same - some even claim that it's worse.

If you manage to break them, I'll be impressed. :P And it's not like you can't put them back. Some people prefer closed phones, but I can assure you that most people I've talked with who've tried, it's the same (as 595-proper and 598-proper)

[Deleted]

Going for the ASUS Xonar DX and the AKG K 242 HD.

Any last comments before I make my purchase?

[Ghâzh]

Going for the ASUS Xonar DX and the AKG K 242 HD.

Any last comments before I make my purchase?

Hope you know what you're buying. And please post back when you get them, how they sound and compare to your old equipment

[Pokot]

Going for the ASUS Xonar DX and the AKG K 242 HD.

Any last comments before I make my purchase?

Dude don't rush it. Use head-fi.org. Nice people with knowledge and experience and they can help you choose based on your music preferences.

Just as a note. I am using modded Senn hd555, ESI Juli@ soundcard and a ART Headamp4. Pretty cheap and nice starter setup considering my audio library isn't full FLAC yet. I'd like to try Xonar STX+HD650 some day.

Late edit on the subject of modding Sennhs into 595s. Mine 555s are modded. I haven't heard 595s unfortunately, but considering both have the same drivers removing those pads does indeed make them into 595s. Overall I would say headphones gained some bass and lost some clarity. All in all those are still pretty awesome cheap entry level audiophile headphones. And no, you can't possibly damage them performing this modification.

[Keller]

Forstex T50RP - AMAZING Orthodynamic driverS. If it is in your price range - get it. You can later mod it to the infamous thunderpants, which is apparently nears the resolution of the audez'e LCD-2.

[Deleted]

Hope you know what you're buying.

Hah, so do I!

Dude don't rush it. Use head-fi.org. Nice people with knowledge and experience and they can help you choose based on your music preferences.

Cool. Created a topic on there and will hopefully get some clarity.

Forstex T50RP

Read about them but they are unfortunately out of my pricerange (found them for 1900 SEK).

[Pokot]

So did you finally decide on the headphones and soundcard? I haven't been on head-fi forums for quite some time now and it seems like there are hundreds of topics asking for help choosing their first headphones. It wasn't like that a year ago. I'm assuming regulars are a bit tired of that. They aren't jumping at an opportunity to convert someone to be audiophile anymore. That's a shame really . Nevertheless there's lots of info on the forums that can be used to your advantage.

[DeltrusDisc]

Marest I really hope you have not bought them yet.... if you want a soundcard specifically aimed to work well with headphones, go with the Asus Xonar Essence STX, it has headphone amps, which the Xonar DX does not. I personally would use the Xonar DX for a sweet setup of speakers and the STX dedicated for headphones.

[Deleted]

I'm still looking around. I have more or less settled for the ASUS Xonar DX, but as for the headphones I'm still having a look around. The Sennheiser PC350 look very interesting, but I'm not sure yet.

[DeltrusDisc]

Never settle for less! Mod the HD558s to HD598s and use the Essence STX and you should be blown away. If you aren't I'd be surprised. O.o

I plan to go for that combo most likely sometime in the future, or something similar. Probably going to use dual-sound cards. ;p Xonar DX for my speakers and Essence STX for headphones. Right now I have more important, uh, debts to pay off. (mother, college.) ;p

[Deleted]

Never settle for less! Mod the HD558s to HD598s and use the Essence STX and you should be blown away. If you aren't I'd be surprised. O.o

I plan to go for that combo most likely sometime in the future, or something similar. Probably going to use dual-sound cards. ;p Xonar DX for my speakers and Essence STX for headphones. Right now I have more important, uh, debts to pay off. (mother, college.) ;p

Unfortunately that's too expensive for me. I'm still planning another 560 ti and an SSD for my rig by the end of the year, together with new fan controllers (really starting to dislike the one on the Phantom). In addition to trying out SLI I also want to take the route into a custom waterloop soon-ish. And I also have other interests that cost me a fair chunk of cash (will continue my studies in psychology and the books cost a fortune).

Basically, I've read up on it and as long as the soundcard supports Dolby Headphones you are more or less golden. I won't say that there isn't a difference between a DX and a STX, don't get me wrong, but since I'm moving from a pretty crappy audio system to a DX together with entry-level audiophile headphones I believe I'll be blown away - even if it might not be the best I can get.

I've also heard that for gaming you should be looking at headphones with a wide spectrum as well as clear (crisp) sound with lower bass. This will make footsteps, grenade-bounces, enemies reloading (and so on) really punch out and you will hear it very, very clearly. The Sennheiser PC350 have been recommended for PC gaming (e.g. Modern Warfare 2) as they deliver on all the points above. Further, seems that a "true" audiophile has several different headphones depending on what they are doing/listening to.

And I'm still skeptical regarding that mod; many say it does close to nothing. That being said, the HD598 is also excellent for gaming but I reckon they are a bit much considering my budget.

[DeltrusDisc]

I'd agree, though headphones will always sound better than a headset. ;p I'd personally just buy headphones and use an external mic, like I have one on my webcam which is actually really good quality, very new, and even though you'd think it's an area mic, it doesn't sound like it. (Microsoft LifeCam if you were wondering.) And yeah man, start where you can with the audio, no doubt that combo would still blow you away, and if you have some decent speakers, then more power to you!

I'm thinking about saving up a shit load of money for some new audiophile speakers from Adam Audio and M-Audio that I listened to at Sam Ash, just a 2.1 setup.... but my GOD they sounded fucking fantastic! And they were damned loud, so you could hear them no problem over my drumset I bet. ;p

Just need to save up about $2,000. *dreamy eyes*

What fan controller do you have? And what SSD are you thinking about getting?

[Deleted]

I'd agree, though headphones will always sound better than a headset. ;p I'd personally just buy headphones and use an external mic, like I have one on my webcam which is actually really good quality, very new, and even though you'd think it's an area mic, it doesn't sound like it. (Microsoft LifeCam if you were wondering.) And yeah man, start where you can with the audio, no doubt that combo would still blow you away, and if you have some decent speakers, then more power to you!

I'm thinking about saving up a shit load of money for some new audiophile speakers from Adam Audio and M-Audio that I listened to at Sam Ash, just a 2.1 setup.... but my GOD they sounded fucking fantastic! And they were damned loud, so you could hear them no problem over my drumset I bet. ;p

Just need to save up about $2,000. *dreamy eyes*

What fan controller do you have? And what SSD are you thinking about getting?

Well, depends what headset you are getting. With the budget that I have, the PC350 seems a fairly potent choice. As I said, they have been recommended more than once. That's for PC gaming though, and not so much with music in mind. However, when you start to move up to the $250+ range, there is no competition. Headphones all the way.

I got the built-in fan controller from the NZXT Phantom. It's alright for what it is I guess (considering the price and features of the Phantom, totally legit). But, it is damn plastic and as I'm building a nice little podium for my PC it will be raised around 40cm from the ground allowing for easier access to the 5.2" bays. A nice controller with more, well, control would be a lot nicer. And the blue lights hurt my eyes at night (can be modded of course).

For an SSD, I was looking at the Intel 510 120Gb primarily. Seems like a solid choice. But as I'm fine with my drives for now I'm waiting a bit (and hoping price per gigabyte will decrease). Maybe the upcoming Intel 710 as it promises to be a lot more reliable.