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  1. #1

    Are raid frames necessary?

    Hey, I play a disc / holy priest and I use a pretty much stock blizz UI to heal in hardmodes atm, and I'm ranked on 7 fights or so from this tier and last tier.
    Other than running a few basic addons like timers for rapture, DBM, and a timer for cooldowns of my spells, I don't use anything else.
    I've tried using Vuhdo, grid and a few others, but I feel like I'm so used to the basic UI that I always switch back.
    I've switched vuhdo and what not to look exactly like blizz frames but something just feels wrong.
    I've talked to a few of our healers and they all think I'm a nuub now
    Am I doing it wrong?
    Or are there any other high-end healers out there that do not utilize raid frames?

  2. #2
    I wouldn't say "necessary" in the sense that you are naturally making things work just fine without them, but I would say that customizable raid frames give you advantages that the default raid frames simply cannot offer. I will also add that the new default raid frames are much better than the old ones, but I'd still recommend getting used to Grid or something of the like, personally. It can be frustrating at first but when you learn more about it and set it up to your liking, I think you'd feel more comfortable.

  3. #3
    No you are not doing it wrong. the current blizzard raid frames are actually really good.

    I myself use healbot so I have some customization options for the text/hots/debuffs, and it is really nice that people out of my healing range are grayed out letting me know I am not close enough to heal them.

    But yeah mods just give more customization options to visually enhance the frames to your liking.

  4. #4
    You can manage things with the default UI. I am not surprised, the current UI is pretty good. But there are better UIs out there as well as strong addons to support a healer's role. You are good enough to make it work with your current tools means that you would be able to do even better with better tools.

  5. #5
    As long as you are comfortable using what you use, and you are not missing anything important, then you are doing fine.

    Addon raid frames are not required. They help people with personal preferences, but are not required at all.

  6. #6
    You won't come close to your max potential as a healer until you get 3rd party raid frames.

    There are so many problems with the stock frames that it's just silly to ask, frankly, and explaining is kind of a waste of time. How do you keep your raid awareness up, when you're forced to glue your eyes to the top left corner of your screen? How do you pick out the target debuffs that are important for YOU as a healer to react to, when all it can do is show them all? How do you choose efficient PoH targets? How much activity time do you lose because the layout is inefficient? I could make this list 20 questions long.

    I personally love grid/vuhdo and despise healbot. However, healbot is miles better than the stock UI and much easier to configure than the other two. If you have trouble with mods that take lots of configuration, get healbot. Otherwise, do try to make yourself use your vuhdo.

    Making an efficient UI has a tremendous effect for everyone, not just healers. It's the second thing I do for every toon I want to raid, right after making sure I'm prepared gear wise. If you're willing to use an inefficient UI, or don't recognize that the stock UI is inefficient, you're just missing out.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-09-09 at 04:47 PM.

  7. #7
    The other thing to remember is that anytime you start to use an addon that changes something fairly large about how you play (like for instance vuhdo) your performance often will initially go down while you get used to it. However, in the long run you would be better off. I am not saying they are required at all, but you also have to realize that just because you don't immediately see improvement doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    How do you keep your raid awareness up, when you're forced to glue your eyes to the top left corner of your screen? How do you pick out the target debuffs that are important for YOU as a healer to react to, when all it can do is show them all? How do you choose efficient PoH targets? How much activity time do you lose because the layout is inefficient?
    Blizz has actually added a few features to meet those challenges. The raid frames can be unlocked and moved around the screen, and you can arrange the ordering by party or role. PoH (as far as I'm aware) still goes by party, so choosing a party has little to do with raid frames. The Blizz UI also has the option to show class colors, range, overheal, incoming heals, buffs/debuffs, and aggro. It also has the option to put maintanks in a redundant square separate from the original raid frame. It also has target of target frames (which also show debuffs). Every one of those can be moved around the screen as you like.

    Perhaps it's just that you haven't tinkered around with it since you didn't know that Blizz has covered those basics... It's not as pretty as the package UI's (slate gray EVERYWHERE), but it's customization makes it a good option if you don't need or want the bells and whistles that come with an ultra customizable UI like Grid/Vuhdo. I have used both of those (still use Vuhdo) just because I'm used to them and don't want to relearn another UI, not because the Blizz UI hasn't come a long way.

    That said, I do not agree that addons are necessary for 100% efficiency. That varies by player. One of the top healers on my server is notorious is playing without any addons, which others balk at, but looking at their progression, if it works, it works. One healer may have a ton of responsibilities in the raid (raid healers most likely, prime example would be a resto druid), so having a countdown for buffs/debuffs/HoTs on the icons like Vuhdo has would be great for them. A disc tank healer has little concern for that because they don't just bubble spam and don't rely on Renew; seeing incoming heals, debuffs, and overheal would be plenty.

    In sum, it varies by role and player preference. Saying it's always one way or the other ignores that the point of addons is customization; if the Blizz UI already provides the customization you want/need, the only gain for a third party UI is pretty looks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  9. #9
    If there is nothing you cannot do with your UI there is no reason to replace anything. Once you find something you need which the standart blizzard UI cannot do its time to switch
    N

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    You won't come close to your max potential as a healer until you get 3rd party raid frames.
    * Kel coughs

    Umm... excuse me?

    There are so many problems with the stock frames that it's just silly to ask, frankly, and explaining is kind of a waste of time. How do you keep your raid awareness up, when you're forced to glue your eyes to the top left corner of your screen? How do you pick out the target debuffs that are important for YOU as a healer to react to, when all it can do is show them all? How do you choose efficient PoH targets? How much activity time do you lose because the layout is inefficient? I could make this list 20 questions long.
    And those 20 questions would all be irrelevant.
    It's basically grid-lite, the new Blizz UI (as of 4.0). It's movable, resizable. It has buff trackers. It has dispellable Debuffs with color coded symbols for disease/magic etc. It's non-dispellable raid-debuffs. It's priority short term buffs (Power Word: Shield, Renew, Pain Suppression, wings) all with the cooldown wheel on them. It's sorted by groups, with mana bars, each with HealCommLib-1.0 included and enabled by default.

    Really. The basic UI when set up right works more than fine. In fact, come patch day, I know for a fact that my raid frames never break. New content doesn't need to wait for an author to add in debuffs that I might want to track, when Blizzard shows me anyways.

    There is zero reason to require a raid-frames addon at this state of the game. All it does is changing how it looks for you, now. Whether you're going grid/mouseovers, grid/clique, healbot, vuhdo, or basic-ui/mouseovers (or sub in clique in there). Well, except for HealBot using more memory than it should and having slower response times because of it (not noticable unless you're healing Blood Death Knights... usually).

    But yeah, no. Basic UI is fine. Really. There are infact reasons to choose the basic UI over Grid at this point.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  11. #11
    2/7 herioc, and yeah, i just use the stock ui with DBM and a some cooldown add-ons. I'm just too lazy to create my own ui.

  12. #12
    seems there's a lot I didn't know

    ok, ok, you sold me

    apologies for tirade.

  13. #13
    The Patient BelziBhaal's Avatar
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    I never could get used to Healbot/Grid, so I just use the default Blizzard ones set up to my liking. It's quite easy to use and I can position it so it doesn't take up too much of my screen.

  14. #14
    It really depends. Do you like to adept to your ui or do you want your ui to be adaptable to your taste?

    The Blizzard ui has come a long way and has improved considerabe, but you probably will never be able to adjust everything like you can with grid (and maybe other addons).

  15. #15
    I've tried just about everything out there concerning raid frames and I always go back to Healbot. It just has everything that I need and its really grown since its birth. The amount of options is just endless and it doesn't take 10 minutes to dig deep enough to find them.

  16. #16
    I used Blizzard's raid frame until half way through HM t11. One big drawback it has is not able to make buffs and debuffs more customizable. I cannot make the size of the buffs/debuff bigger without changing the size of the raid frame. I cannot track a certain buff/debuff while not track some of them. If anyone know how to make them more customizable, I would love to know.
    Also it feels like to me that it cuts off debuff/buffs after 3-4 of them (sorry haven't used it in a long time, so don't remember exactly how many). So if tank has cd up, you have shield up on him, druid has life bloom on him, and pally has beacon on him, one or more things you want to track gets lost. Tracking buffs and debuffs has been a simple way for me to know what everyone in the raid is doing, hence it helps me making more informed decisions.
    I'd like to know if anyone did Sinestra with just the blizzard raid frame though (as a dispeller that is). I cannot see the dispelling being easy only using blizzard default UI without some kind of outside mod help track the debuffs.

  17. #17
    I have always used Blizzard default raid frames since Vanilla and most likely always will. I just find it very difficult to set up Grid or Vuhdo to a setting I like that I can get used to.

    The new Blizzard raid frames are amazing. It would be nice if a couple more things could be customizable, but I certainly can't complain.

  18. #18
    After spending much of vanilla and tbc using ct:ra, i have been using the blizzard stock frames. They are pretty good now, although for some fights you may benefit from additional addons. Sinestra for example is tricky without Sinestra Wrack Helper. BalerocHealers can help you coordinate healing on that fight, useful on heroic mode when vent is full of dps floundering.

    With 3rd party frames, those additional addons may not be required as, you can get plugins for the frames which do the same job.

  19. #19
    Not anymore. Just get clique now and you're good to go.
    Vanilla WoW was a diamond in the rough. Burning Crusade cleared the rough away and polished that diamond up. During Lich King, that diamond cracked from being over polished and in Cataclysm that diamond was replaced with a cubic zirconia.


  20. #20
    Brewmaster jibbyjackjoe's Avatar
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    I'm using Clique with the default frames, and I set up my wife's the same.

    I have voodoo downloaded, but switched it off for performance boosting. I really like my setup with blizzards frames, and see no need to switch.

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