Sooo, crit or haste for ret now?

[Khwaj]

k, i did a quick browse abt the hotfix abt ret and have gotten no definite answer

so with the changes to censure damage, would the stat priority for rets now be master>haste>crit or is it mastery>crit>haste

even b4 the change ej was still arguing the difference between haste and crit with no clear winner, so does this change effect the outcome now or does it still leaves room for discussion?

[Seani]

Haste first I would imagine. I would put crit and mastery at about the same. Haste increases censures' damage and stacking speed.

[Jonuts]

Hit/Exp cap >Mastery>------->haste/crit (take your pick). The two leading tools for figuring out our gearing can't agree if Haste is better of if crit is better, and the difference falls well into the range of damage difference from RNG, so it's a pointless argument. Stack whichever (or hell, both!) you want after mastery. Post buff, I'd imagine that haste is better than it was, but it's still under mastery, and it still leaves us in the position of not caring which we stack after mastery, because it's also a buff to crit as well.

[Khwaj]

well im not sure abt the math on damage, but it affects censure damage by abt 3% from wat ppl are saying, it wouldnt really affect the stacking speed as censure only goes up to 5 stacks and any single target ability will apply it

---------- Post added 2011-09-10 at 05:09 PM ----------

Hit/Exp cap >Mastery>------->haste/crit (take your pick). The two leading tools for figuring out our gearing can't agree if Haste is better of if crit is better, and the difference falls well into the range of damage difference from RNG, so it's a pointless argument. Stack whichever (or hell, both!) you want after mastery. Post buff, I'd imagine that haste is better than it was, but it's still under mastery, and it still leaves us in the position of not caring which we stack after mastery, because it's also a buff to crit as well.

i guess so yeah, ive tried crit and haste in raids b4 the hotfix, dont really notice the difference cos of the damn rng we have to deal with, but kinda leaning more towards ahste now, but time will tell

[Eon Drache]

Before the fix, they were around the same as RNG just seems to let them fall at the same value. But I'm going to start going toward haste because it makes the rotation nicer, and it doesn't look like it will lower my damage. I will probably look at Baleroc and Shannox for on tank and spank and standard fight with movement for melee.

[Valort]

Unless haste affects the speed at which censure ticks, it shouldn't make any difference. Reaching the 5 stacks on a single target is trivial anyway.

Thing is, censure ticks CAN crit, so I would say crit > haste anyway.

[Kinmaul]

Unless haste affects the speed at which censure ticks...

It does, but since it can also crit like you mentioned we are going to have to wait and see how it sims before coming to the conclusion of haste > crit or vice versa.

[Shelly]

Pretty sure haste and crit are just going to remain tied until T13 when (hopefully) there will be enough haste to lower the CD of CS to 3-seconds.

[Moradim]

before, picking crit or haste after mastery was a personal choice, not a huge dps gain or loss either way. although crit was generally the more popular choice. however, with this change to censure, it seems like haste will be considerably better, as it affects the number of censure ticks/overall damage you also get from it. also, haste of course will lower your CS cd and gcd on abilities which is also nice. more haste = more cs, more autoattacks, and in turn more SoC/seal/censure damage which benefits from haste. it's also more potential art of war procs.

hard to say right now, raid testing with different reforges will be needed to get a clear idea. mastery is still our best stat though, crit or haste as our second best stat is now up for debate. a haste reforge "feels" better, the question now is does it outperform a crit > haste reforge.

[Dibby]

As OP said, there's been a whole ton of debate about Haste vs Crit, with no clear cut definitive answer... except that in itself is the answer. I'm going to paste straight from the Ret thread on EJ, since that answers it:

Simcraft reckons that Crit > Haste.
My spreadsheet reckons that Haste > Crit by about the same ratio.

sjogren and I have compared the tools and do not find an overt flaw. We have amicably agreed to let the tools disagree.

This leads to the Crit vs Haste debate becoming a personal choice. It is up to the individual to decide whether they want Master > Crit > Haste or Mastery > Haste > Crit. Reforge to whichever view you decide to back or to match the tool you prefer.

It's honestly 100% up to you. At current gear levels Crit and Haste are very close to each other.

Although as Shelly said, T13 should probably push Haste to be the winner. No telling until 4.3, at any rate.

[Ruzhyo]

T13 when (hopefully) there will be enough haste to lower the CD of CS to 3-seconds.

That would be sick with our current 4 piece bonus.

[Jonuts]

Unless haste affects the speed at which censure ticks

It does. Even a few more points of haste will net you an extra tick throughout a fight. Censure damage doesn't have these large plateaus with haste that most dots do, since Censure keeps ticking the entire fight (unless you let it fall off...), so it doesn't take much haste at all to get extra ticks.

[Deleted]

Don't forget about AoK as well, crit makes it faster to get the initial 5 stacks up, which will ensure a full-powered first round of CDs. From everything I've seen, even with this change, the choice between haste and crit is still a personal one, that's hard or impossible to really measure.

[Butosai]

crit is the clear winner, simply because our bis trinkets feed off of it

[Kisko]

What Butosai said.

Mastery > Crit > Haste.

Nothing changed.

[Deleted]

I'll go with crit.

Double damage? Yes please.

[Butosai]

As OP said, there's been a whole ton of debate about Haste vs Crit, with no clear cut definitive answer... except that in itself is the answer. I'm going to paste straight from the Ret thread on EJ, since that answers it:



It's honestly 100% up to you. At current gear levels Crit and Haste are very close to each other.

Although as Shelly said, T13 should probably push Haste to be the winner. No telling until 4.3, at any rate.

I honestly doubt t13 will push haste past crit. You would be giving up way too much mastery to make a 3 second CS worth it

[Dacu]

That would be sick with our current 4 piece bonus.

So you want t13 with 4pt12 bonus? :S

[Warcrafter]

hit + exp cap then mastery then crit then haste, thats prio

[ipoststuff]

crit and haste affect dots at the same rate so this hotfix doesnt change anything.