1. #3121
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    is broly stronger than super perfect cell, yes and here is why

    It is stated that gohan is a super saiyan 2 against broly, even if out of practice broly dominated gohan

    His first defeat took goku+trunks+vegeta+piccolo+gohan (not super 2) all of whom were super saiyan and super namek. Not just that, it took the right punch in the right spot with a giant asteroid to defeat broly.

    Now the second time it was a super saiyan 2, goten who was at at least the same level as freiza and goku to defeat broly.

    now for super perfect cell

    It took the power of 1 hurt super saiyan 2 to defeat him while being distracted by a relatively strong blast by vegeta. yamcha, krillin, chatzu, and tien all has minuscule power in comparison (maybe tien had more comparable power)

    It took a lot more to defeat broly than it did to beat cell.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 08:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    I've always wondered how people like Krillin and Yamcha attained such insanely high power levels despite being only human (both were 10,000 at the minimum, Krillin broke 20K-30K on Namek)....while someone like Hercule trains all the time but still struggles to even break through the 100 power level mark. Pretty much all the human warriors were absolutely pathetic as we saw in the tournament.
    Ki training vs physical training, there is only so far curls can go
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  2. #3122
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Keep in mind Broly has Saiyan Healing. Gohan wasn't fighting Broly, he was fighting Super Perfect Broly.

  3. #3123
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Keep in mind Broly has Saiyan Healing. Gohan wasn't fighting Broly, he was fighting Super Perfect Broly.
    Very true zoma, meaning that broly is at least at super perfect cells level or greater
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  4. #3124
    Scarab Lord Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Ki training vs physical training, there is only so far curls can go
    Dragonball had tons of strong humans didn't it e.g. Master Roshi and Mercenary Tao? I'd say even they were far stronger than Hercule. There was also that big red-indian guy (forgot name).

    Also I reckon Chi-Chi could kick Hercule's ass, and what training did she do? Zip -_-

  5. #3125
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Can't beat the Kamehameha wave, that thing is beast. Goku literally fights the most powerful villains and good guys in the universe ever and it's eats all thier attacks for breakfast. Cell even uses it as his most powerful attack when he has the cells of all the fighters. He himself is killed by it. Buu even got melted a few times by it, just nothing anyone else dishes out can stand up to it when Goku is at or near their level. It's powerful as hell, can be sustained and controlled through movement and how much power is put into it.

    My favorite one? Probably Goku and Vegeta's Kamehameha wave Vs Galik gun battle or Cell Vs Gohan and crew.
    One thing I don't understand about the Kamehameha Wave (and some other beam attacks) is how it will sometimes just push the person. Like when Goku did the wave fight vs Vegeta. It beat Vegeta, but basically did no damage to him. It just pushed him into the atmosphere until he rolled off of it. Similar situation with Frieza. Frieza attacked it shoulder first, then rolled off of it and took Goku out from the side.

  6. #3126
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    Dragonball had tons of strong humans didn't it e.g. Master Roshi and Mercenary Tao? I'd say even they were far stronger than Hercule. There was also that big red-indian guy (forgot name).

    Also I reckon Chi-Chi could kick Hercule's ass, and what training did she do? Zip -_-
    Chi chi has the power of being the only one the strongest person in the universe is afraid of (other than POPO!)

    lets not forget, Tao and roshi both had ki abilities, dodon ray and kamahameha!

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 08:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    One thing I don't understand about the Kamehameha Wave (and some other beam attacks) is how it will sometimes just push the person. Like when Goku did the wave fight vs Vegeta. It beat Vegeta, but basically did no damage to him. It just pushed him into the atmosphere until he rolled off of it. Similar situation with Frieza. Frieza attacked it shoulder first, then rolled off of it and took Goku out from the side.
    It must be how the energy is set up. Its not a random ki blast after all.
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  7. #3127
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    Dragonball had tons of strong humans didn't it e.g. Master Roshi and Mercenary Tao? I'd say even they were far stronger than Hercule. There was also that big red-indian guy (forgot name).

    Also I reckon Chi-Chi could kick Hercule's ass, and what training did she do? Zip -_-
    All of them could, easily. Goku, at the start of the series, had a PL of 10, at which point he was bullet proof. So every human he faced from then onwards that gave him even a little bit of a challenge could probably be considered stronger than Hercule.

  8. #3128
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    I've always wondered how people like Krillin and Yamcha attained such insanely high power levels despite being only human (both were 10,000 at the minimum, Krillin broke 20K-30K on Namek)....while someone like Hercule trains all the time but still struggles to even break through the 100 power level mark. Pretty much all the human warriors were absolutely pathetic as we saw in the tournament.
    Trained by a master who knows the ways of Kii. I think back in dragonball there were only a few left after King Piccolo? Gohan, Roshii, and some others. It's really what holds all the humans back who don't know it like Hercule. Hercule is not even 10 power level btw, he can't stop a bullet.

    Also on the topic of Galic Gun Vs Kamehameha wave I mentioned earlier. Does anyone else notice that after that battle Vegeta switched up his energy beam tactics. Instead of a beam like Galic gun he switched to all out waves that can't be touched. The only other time he's in one of those battles again is against Goku when he goes Majin but it was just a lesser kii wave for a few seconds, just a quick test of strength, nothing intense. Think its just coincidence or tactics?
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  9. #3129
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    All of them could, easily. Goku, at the start of the series, had a PL of 10, at which point he was bullet proof. So every human he faced from then onwards that gave him even a little bit of a challenge could probably be considered stronger than Hercule.
    Im nice to hercule and at least put him at 50 at his prime, likly much stronger than any human on earth who lacked Ki abilities, (obvious exception being chi chi or possibly the ox king) I also go by the theory saiyans are simply more durable in terms of physiology which is why bullets cannot hurt goku, im sure yamcha and krillin would both by easily hurt by bullets back in dragon ball, roshi possibly not.

    as for vegeta not using his main attacks in favor or random bursts, def tactics to conserve energy.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 08:25 AM ----------



    good ole team 4 star movie parody
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2012-07-25 at 08:26 AM.
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  10. #3130
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    One thing I don't understand about the Kamehameha Wave (and some other beam attacks) is how it will sometimes just push the person. Like when Goku did the wave fight vs Vegeta. It beat Vegeta, but basically did no damage to him. It just pushed him into the atmosphere until he rolled off of it. Similar situation with Frieza. Frieza attacked it shoulder first, then rolled off of it and took Goku out from the side.
    The way I see it, say in Vegeta's case. Is the second the beams about to hit them, and they realize they lost the battle, they stop firing their wave and take that energy output and put it into like a kii shield and defense so they don't get vaporized. And with Goku at that time they were about equal in power so Frieza did pretty much the same thing but offensively. As we saw it really drained Frieza though in the longrun. It can only be done when they are near eachother's power level and the guy still has gas in the tank.
    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2012-07-25 at 08:32 AM.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  11. #3131
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Second question. Where would you like to fire your ki attack from. Palms, finger, eye, mouth or other?

  12. #3132
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Second question. Where would you like to fire your ki attack from. Palms, finger, eye, mouth or other?

    finger and mouth

    because both are always bad ass!

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 08:36 AM ----------

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  13. #3133
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    One thing I don't understand about the Kamehameha Wave (and some other beam attacks) is how it will sometimes just push the person. Like when Goku did the wave fight vs Vegeta. It beat Vegeta, but basically did no damage to him. It just pushed him into the atmosphere until he rolled off of it. Similar situation with Frieza. Frieza attacked it shoulder first, then rolled off of it and took Goku out from the side.
    For the most part, the kamehameha does not seem any more powerful than any other blast. It's all about the energy put into it. I've seen several characters from a normal ki blast as opposed to a "special" blast, and they seem to do just as much damage. The different names honestly seem to do nothing.

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  14. #3134
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    For the most part, the kamehameha does not seem any more powerful than any other blast. It's all about the energy put into it. I've seen several characters from a normal ki blast as opposed to a "special" blast, and they seem to do just as much damage. The different names honestly seem to do nothing.
    I think it has to do with how it's released. For example, when a finger beam hits the landscape, it seems to do the same amount of explosive damage, so it's roughly as strong as a standard ki wave. When it hits a person, it causes a different type of damage.

  15. #3135
    Scarab Lord Xuvial's Avatar
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    Actually I take back what I sad about picking a wave-type Ki release like Kamehameha.

    I would actually prefer an instant-style blast like what Frieza used to kill Krillin. No beams, no travel-time, and most importantly IT NEVER MISSES. Just an instant explosion on your target. Mwahahaha.

  16. #3136
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    Actually I take back what I sad about picking a wave-type Ki release like Kamehameha.

    I would actually prefer an instant-style blast like what Frieza used to kill Krillin. No beams, no travel-time, and most importantly IT NEVER MISSES. Just an instant explosion on your target. Mwahahaha.
    I think he put a highly compressed energy ball inside Krillin. He seems to shoot something tiny at Krillin right before he starts floating.

  17. #3137
    Scarab Lord Xuvial's Avatar
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    Just read this in a youtube comment and found it hilarious :P

    "Vegeta was the king of Vegeta who died trying to save Vegeta. But Vegeta was destroyed anyway, leaving Vegeta's son, Vegeta, fatherless. No longer being able to live on Vegeta, Vegeta went away from his old home. He now lives on Earth, still claiming to be Vegeta, Prince of Vegeta and Son of King Vegeta."


    All we needed was for Namek to be called Piccolo instead :P

  18. #3138
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    "Vegeta was the king of Vegeta who died trying to save Vegeta. But Vegeta was destroyed anyway, leaving Vegeta's son, Vegeta, fatherless. No longer being able to live on Vegeta, Vegeta went away from his old home. He now lives on Earth, still claiming to be Vegeta, Prince of Vegeta and Son of King Vegeta."
    "Your majesty, Bardock's been telling everyone that Frieza plans to destroy Vegeta."
    "Wait, my son, the planet or me?"
    "...Yes."

  19. #3139
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    is broly stronger than super perfect cell, yes and here is why

    It is stated that gohan is a super saiyan 2 against broly, even if out of practice broly dominated gohan

    His first defeat took goku+trunks+vegeta+piccolo+gohan (not super 2) all of whom were super saiyan and super namek. Not just that, it took the right punch in the right spot with a giant asteroid to defeat broly.

    Now the second time it was a super saiyan 2, goten who was at at least the same level as freiza and goku to defeat broly.

    now for super perfect cell

    It took the power of 1 hurt super saiyan 2 to defeat him while being distracted by a relatively strong blast by vegeta. yamcha, krillin, chatzu, and tien all has minuscule power in comparison (maybe tien had more comparable power)

    It took a lot more to defeat broly than it did to beat cell.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 08:14 AM ----------



    Ki training vs physical training, there is only so far curls can go
    I don't believe it was ever stated that Gohan went SS2 against Broly. That's just DB wiki nonsense. Also welcome back.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 01:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    I have them all dl on this computer but I've never taken the time to watch them as everyone calls them all non-canon filler. I guess I'll have to do that. Plus I really need to watch the Bojack movie to get the reference in DBZA about him being in the middle of King Kai's planet.
    BLASPHEMY! It sounds like "everyone" needs to go DIAF then. The movies are canon of a sort. They don't take place in the main series, (that's arguable for Cooler's Revenge, Bojack Unbound and Wrath of the Dragon) but that doesn't make them non-canon. Akira Toriyama made them, and we know that alternate universes are a thing in DBZ. Canon to me.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  20. #3140
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it was stated by toei that gohan was super saiyan 2.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 04:09 PM ----------

    http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8330235/2/

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 04:30 PM ----------

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