1. #3381
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Let us discuss the legendary super saiyan transformation

    I theorize that it is caused due to a special mutation and begins as a normal super saiyan form, but instead of reaching the second level. the legendary form and any form that could come after occur instead.

    I think that the legendary super saiyan is greater than super saiyan 2 and I believe i got a few others to agree, even stronger then super perfect cell.

    How much more powerful is what i guess. Would legendary ss3 (which is in dbz hoshi) be that much greater than a regular ss3? even at gokus lvl?

    also what kind of multiplier could the legendary forms be. Broly was born at 10000, but is never shown as powerful in his normal form only in his weaker super saiyan (purple haired) state

    also is his normal super saiyan form the same x50?

    My theory is that Legendary Super Saiyan is caused by having a tail upon first transforming into a Super Saiyan. I also believe Super Saiyan 4 to actually be an evolution of that form, which would technically make it Legendary Super Saiyan 2, not a continued evolution of the previous 3 Super Saiyan states.

    There isn't much evidence for this theory, it's mostly my headcanon. There is a little though. There is no mention of cutting off a Saiyan's tail being a viable tactic before Yajirobe cuts off Vegeta's tail, even counting any random stories by Vegeta and such. Thus, I find it highly likely that any previous Super Saiyans, such as the one that destroyed the original Saiyan homeworld 1000 years ago, reached Super Saiyan with their tails. Since that Super Saiyan is known to have possessed the Legendary form, the tail being the main factor just makes sense to me. Old Kai was also aware of SS4, so once again, the whole thing just kind of fits to me.

    Oh, here's some fun stuff about Old Kai. He is over 75 million years old, and for much of his life he was imprisoned in the Z Sword. The "Original Super Saiyan" that destroyed the Saiyan homeworld was from 1000 years ago. That means he's not actually the first Super Saiyan, as they must have existed for 10s of millions of years at least, likely making them some of the oldest beings in the universe. Saiyans also must have had working space travel before their planet was destroyed, (or they can breathe in space) as they hadn't yet met the Arcosians, so they didn't have Planet Trade tech. That means they had to migrate to Planet Plant on their own.

    I don't think it's actually possible with the information we have to determine how powerful LSS is. We don't know Broly's base power level at the time of his first battle with Goku and the Z Warriors, thus we don't have enough data to know for sure. I don't believe the transformation is inherently more powerful than Super Perfect Cell. I believe it was Broly's Zenkai that he got from losing to Goku that pushed him past the level of SS2. I think if Broly from his first movie fought Super Perfect Cell he would have been greased, but I think Broly after the first movie was stronger than Cell.

    I see no reason why his normal Super Saiyan form should be any different, unless there is information that says otherwise.
    Last edited by Laurcus; 2012-08-16 at 07:28 PM.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  2. #3382
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Im not so sure, I think even first movie broly could have been stronger than super perfect cell


    it took a lot to defeat broly. I think ss2 is only double ss1

    it took 4 super saiyans and a super namek... and a meteor to defeat broly. It took 1 super saiyan 2, a blast from vegeta, and some attacks from the much weaker, tien, krillin, and yamcha to kill super perfect cell

    movie 2 broly is no doubt stronger

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  3. #3383
    Good point on the Broly stronger then Cell debate.

    The Legendary Super Saiyan form likely stems from a mutation, prophecy, mysticism or something like that.
    Based on Hoshi/ Video games it becomes apparent that (perhaps not canon wise) that Legendary Super Saiyan is a separate transformation branch just like Great Ape is.

    The Branches
    1 - Great Ape
    2 - Super Saiyan 1 - 2 -3
    3 - Legendary SSJ - Legendary SSJ 3

    Also at some point the branches 1 & 2 converge a'la golden ape and ssj 4.

    In theory I suppose Broly could have regular Super Saiyan 1-3 and legendary super saiyan 1-3. However it starts to get fuzzy and slightly more complicated once forms start converging. Legendary great ape? legendary ss4?

    Legendary SSJ is def stronger then regular ssj and its at least stronger then 4 regular super saiyans and a super namek.
    At minimum Legendary SS 3 would be stronger then 4 regular ss3's (at minimum) which is strong as fuark.

    I would imagine LSSJ3 could stomp ssj3 Goku, Ultimate Gohan, ssj3 Gotenks, with relative ease. If that paints a picture.
    Last edited by iadamson; 2012-08-17 at 05:01 AM.

  4. #3384
    The Patient Ðemonhuntr's Avatar
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    Is it ever explained why Broly's SS form has blue hair? maybe that means his SS is different too. Also in the new special doesnt Bardock have a tail and should therefore have gone legendary SS?
    Last edited by Ðemonhuntr; 2012-08-17 at 05:04 AM.

  5. #3385
    Quote Originally Posted by Ðemonhuntr View Post
    Is it ever explained why Broly's SS form has blue hair? maybe that means his SS is different too. Also in the new movie doesnt Bardock have a tail and should therefore have gone legendary SS?
    It's only blue in the first movie, its assumed because of the power restriction device to dull his power, and prevent the legendary form.

    In the second coming he has a regular super saiyan form with golden hair because he destroyed the power restriction device in the first movie.

    As for Bardock being a legendary super saiyan, Canon wise, doesn't make clear sense as with most dbz movies.

    The original super saiyan was depicted in the anime as being a golden great ape (although in a silhouette). Which obviously was not Bardock b/c he only goes regular super saiyan. Also The original super saiyan destroyed the original planet vegeta. Bardock is sent into the past on the second planet vegeta, at the time hes sent into its known as planet plant. Now unless he went to the original planet vegeta and went great ape and destroyed it. He's not the original LSSJ. Granted Vegeta's recall of the legend's appearance could be misinformed as he did not exist 1000 years ago, to visually witness it.

    Now if you take the movie version of Broly being a current day LSSJ. Bardock was for sure not a LSSJ.

    However it could explain how Frieza's family/ blood line was aware or feared the saiyans and the legend of a super saiyan. But not the same legend that vegeta and other saiyans pass down.

    Having a tail and going super saiyan doesn't grant the LSSJ form.
    As Goku has one in GT and can go super saiyan but cant go Broly style.
    However, can go Golden Ape, which is like vegeta's telling of the story.
    Last edited by iadamson; 2012-08-17 at 05:14 AM.

  6. #3386
    The Patient Ðemonhuntr's Avatar
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    IMO Broly is just a freak of nature hehe

    but the Bardock special does take away credit of Laurcus theory on tail = LSS
    Last edited by Ðemonhuntr; 2012-08-17 at 05:19 AM.

  7. #3387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ðemonhuntr View Post
    IMO Broly is just a freak of nature hehe

    but the Bardock special does take away credit of Laurcus theory on tail = LSS
    That's true.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 05:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Im not so sure, I think even first movie broly could have been stronger than super perfect cell


    it took a lot to defeat broly. I think ss2 is only double ss1

    it took 4 super saiyans and a super namek... and a meteor to defeat broly. It took 1 super saiyan 2, a blast from vegeta, and some attacks from the much weaker, tien, krillin, and yamcha to kill super perfect cell

    movie 2 broly is no doubt stronger
    Well, only Goku was actually a Super Saiyan when Broly was defeated in the first movie. Everyone else had the shit kicked out of them so badly that by the time they gave their energy they were in base form.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  8. #3388
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    they may have been in base form but it was all of them for a great while at full power fighting broly and broly just had to laugh at them


    it took the right punch into the right place with all of their energy combined with the help of a meteor to defeat broly and not even kill him

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 03:33 PM ----------


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  10. #3390
    The Patient Ðemonhuntr's Avatar
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    Genn somehow i dont believe Goku really believes in family values hehe.

    Anyways back to Broly, One of the reasons his PL is so hard to gauge is because of "when" its supposed to happen if it happens during the week b4 the cell tourny then why arent goku and gohan in SS form lets say they bumped their head and forgot to do it for a day SS Goku did put up a good show vs Perfect Cell so id argue Broly atleast = Perfect Cell cuz SS Goku didnt have shiznit on him, if he = Super Perfect Cell is a big question though what was the power jump from Perfect to Super Perfect?

  11. #3391
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ðemonhuntr View Post
    Genn somehow i dont believe Goku really believes in family values hehe.

    Anyways back to Broly, One of the reasons his PL is so hard to gauge is because of "when" its supposed to happen if it happens during the week b4 the cell tourny then why arent goku and gohan in SS form lets say they bumped their head and forgot to do it for a day SS Goku did put up a good show vs Perfect Cell so id argue Broly atleast = Perfect Cell cuz SS Goku didnt have shiznit on him, if he = Super Perfect Cell is a big question though what was the power jump from Perfect to Super Perfect?
    Well, what gets me is Broly is defeated by Goku, still as SSJ1. He absorbs the power of his friends, and we don't really know how much energy that is.

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  12. #3392
    It takes a ssj2 to defeat cell.
    A ssj to defeat Broly.

    Cell killed Goku, & Trunks

    Broly killed his dad.

    Okay broly surived the destruction of a planet from an asteroid, so did cell minus the asteroid.

  13. #3393
    Quote Originally Posted by iadamson View Post
    It takes a ssj2 to defeat cell.
    A ssj to defeat Broly.

    Cell killed Goku, & Trunks

    Broly killed his dad.

    Okay broly surived the destruction of a planet from an asteroid, so did cell minus the asteroid.
    Well, Cell actually died, he just came back because a few cells survived, and thus he regenerated. Which is also why he came back as Super-Perfect Cell.

  14. #3394
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Well, Cell actually died, he just came back because a few cells survived, and thus he regenerated. Which is also why he came back as Super-Perfect Cell.
    If he died he would have went to hell, like when he actually died.

    He survived the blast, saiyan DNA, stronger every time hes hurt real bad, the cells remembered his perfect form also.

  15. #3395
    Been traveling the last week, here's a K&K update video regarding the Saiyan armor:


  16. #3396
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    ---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 06:03 AM ----------


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  17. #3397
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    When does Piccolo say that? I do not recall that ever being mentioned. Also, Cooler considers blowing up the sun, and Broly did blow up many stars when he destroyed the south quadrant.
    Sorry haven't been on in a couple days. I could of swore he said it in one of the movies suggesting to use the sun to destroy something but I went back and checked and never happened. I guess it was an assumption I always had, sorry. If their blasts do indeed burn that hot on Earth wouldn't it fry the atmosphere though and cook everyone?
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  18. #3398
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Sorry haven't been on in a couple days. I could of swore he said it in one of the movies suggesting to use the sun to destroy something but I went back and checked and never happened. I guess it was an assumption I always had, sorry. If their blasts do indeed burn that hot on Earth wouldn't it fry the atmosphere though and cook everyone?
    one does not simply compare dbz physics and logic to the real world

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 10:34 AM ----------


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  19. #3399
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Sorry haven't been on in a couple days. I could of swore he said it in one of the movies suggesting to use the sun to destroy something but I went back and checked and never happened. I guess it was an assumption I always had, sorry. If their blasts do indeed burn that hot on Earth wouldn't it fry the atmosphere though and cook everyone?
    Don't sweat it.

    I never saw it as simple heat. More of heat combined with raw kinetic force. More on the kinetic force. But that's just my headcanon. All I know for sure is that I would pay to have Akira Toriyama read our fan thread, as well as the Goku vs Superman thread, and then make a brief comment on it. That would make my day... year........ life.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  20. #3400
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Sorry haven't been on in a couple days. I could of swore he said it in one of the movies suggesting to use the sun to destroy something but I went back and checked and never happened. I guess it was an assumption I always had, sorry. If their blasts do indeed burn that hot on Earth wouldn't it fry the atmosphere though and cook everyone?
    Just a wild guess, but perhaps you confused actual canon with DBM? Because Piccolo mentions what you're talking about in the second Broly special, when Piccolo suggests that they attempt to push him with combined attacks because the sun "burns much more than our attacks do". Sometimes one can mix actual canon up with fan material, I know I've done it in the past with something Broly-related too...

    Just a guess from my part on why you'd be thinking about that though, considering I found what you said so similar to what he says there.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2012-08-18 at 01:06 PM.

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