1. #5381
    Well, I guess this whole Super Saiyan God thing officially means the end of GT as canon?

  2. #5382
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Well, I guess this whole Super Saiyan God thing officially means the end of GT as canon?
    Not at all. The movie is set in the time between when Buu is defeated and Uub is found at the end of the series. The end of the series is when Uub is found, and GT picks up a few years after that.

    If anything, this'll just cause a problem in that there are two possible canon's depending on whether you want to take up GT's canon or the movie canon.

    Or it could just be another rainbow Rasengan and not actually mean much.
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  3. #5383
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    gt better be taken out

    and put out to pasture

    and shot

    with a tank

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  4. #5384
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Brohoof View Post
    Or it could just be another rainbow Rasengan and not actually mean much.
    I don't think this is the case. It was stated that this movie was going to be canon for DBZ. The existance of a transformation beyond Super Saiyan 3 that was never mentioned or discovered in GT, and the possibility of Vegeta having achieved SSJ3 (this one isn't confirmed yet, hence why it's only a possibility) kinda invalidates GT, even as an alternate timeline. Pan and Uub would still exist as canon since they're part of Z. However, at least in my opinion, having a movie such as this one, with a new transformation and a villain that was stated to be "the strongest BEING in the universe", invalidates GT, period. Of course, that's just it: my opinion.
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  5. #5385
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    I don't think this is the case. It was stated that this movie was going to be canon for DBZ. The existance of a transformation beyond Super Saiyan 3 that was never mentioned or discovered in GT, and the possibility of Vegeta having achieved SSJ3 (this one isn't confirmed yet, hence why it's only a possibility) kinda invalidates GT, even as an alternate timeline. Pan and Uub would still exist as canon since they're part of Z. However, at least in my opinion, having a movie such as this one, with a new transformation and a villain that was stated to be "the strongest BEING in the universe", invalidates GT, period. Of course, that's just it: my opinion.
    The rainbow rasengan was a joke :P

    Also, where was the statement that the movie was canon? I thought we just assumed that we can qualify it as that because Akira wrote it, whereas he didn't write GT. But if there's an actual official statement declaring the movie canon, that's going to cause quite a few... Interesting adjustments we're going to have to make to Dragon Ball canon. Which'll be fun.

    Also, the statement was something along the lines of him being the 'strongest known being in the DBZ universe', iirc. Not just flat out. But I don't have the quote on me and don't really care to find it :P
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  6. #5386
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Brohoof View Post
    The rainbow rasengan was a joke :P

    Also, where was the statement that the movie was canon? I thought we just assumed that we can qualify it as that because Akira wrote it, whereas he didn't write GT. But if there's an actual official statement declaring the movie canon, that's going to cause quite a few... Interesting adjustments we're going to have to make to Dragon Ball canon. Which'll be fun.

    Also, the statement was something along the lines of him being the 'strongest known being in the DBZ universe', iirc. Not just flat out. But I don't have the quote on me and don't really care to find it :P
    I thought that by rainbow rasengan you were refering to how movies usually have silly stuff that are in no way canon. Such as False Super Saiyan or... well, Rainbow Rasengan

    As for the statement, I think it was made at about the same time the movie was announced. It should be SOMEWHERE in this thread... but Kami knows in what page.

    And the "strongest being" thing, I'm not sure, I only read it in this thread and never bothered to open the source. I was sure it was stated by Toriyama (or someone else, dunno) that he was the strongest, period. But maybe I'm just wrong and spouting falsehoods
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  7. #5387
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    I thought that by rainbow rasengan you were refering to how movies usually have silly stuff that are in no way canon. Such as False Super Saiyan or... well, Rainbow Rasengan

    As for the statement, I think it was made at about the same time the movie was announced. It should be SOMEWHERE in this thread... but Kami knows in what page.

    And the "strongest being" thing, I'm not sure, I only read it in this thread and never bothered to open the source. I was sure it was stated by Toriyama (or someone else, dunno) that he was the strongest, period. But maybe I'm just wrong and spouting falsehoods
    It was V-Jump that stated it, and they got it from Toei. And the wording was slightly ambiguous if I recall, as it said strongest being in the DBZ universe. The term DBZ universe doesn't necessarily include GT. The proper term to refer to the entire setting would be Dragon Ball meta series, or the one Toriyama came up with, "The Dragon World".

    It could be argued either way, but I feel like based on the wording it means most powerful period. Not most powerful specific to only one series. I feel like the second meaning is more like trying to nitpick the wording to make it say something it doesn't, but that's just me.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  8. #5388
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    It was V-Jump that stated it, and they got it from Toei. And the wording was slightly ambiguous if I recall, as it said strongest being in the DBZ universe. The term DBZ universe doesn't necessarily include GT. The proper term to refer to the entire setting would be Dragon Ball meta series, or the one Toriyama came up with, "The Dragon World".

    It could be argued either way, but I feel like based on the wording it means most powerful period. Not most powerful specific to only one series. I feel like the second meaning is more like trying to nitpick the wording to make it say something it doesn't, but that's just me.
    Seems like an odd thing regardless for Akira to completely ignore GT, which was the main reason I think that nitpicking would be viable to assume in the first place, really. I mean, he KNOWS it exists, and that there's a super saiyan 4 in GT (I would hope he knows anyways), so who knows. I unfortunately doubt he'll come out with an official statement on this movie's relation to GT.

    Either way, we'll probably figure something out when the movie comes out.
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  9. #5389
    Can anyone tell me what's Vegeta's power level? I mean, the highest he ever achieved (and when that was)

  10. #5390
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Can anyone tell me what's Vegeta's power level? I mean, the highest he ever achieved (and when that was)
    Highest directly stated, 250k in the Frieza saga. Based on character statements, he was at an absolute minimum of 450 million in the Cell saga.

    Highest theoretical power level would be SS4 at the end of GT, and the actual number would be asinine. When I say asinine, I mean my minimum estimate puts him at 57.6 septillion.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  11. #5391
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Can anyone tell me what's Vegeta's power level? I mean, the highest he ever achieved (and when that was)
    Well the toughest he ever was, was in Majin form against Goku and Fat Buu. He was full SSJ2, and much stronger then Gohan was when he fought cell. As to the actual number, you'd have to ask Laurcus haha. When he died and was brought back without the Majin power, it's not really known for sure if he was stronger or not since his purpose after that was to just take a beating from kid Buu. He seems to maintain his ability to go SSJ2 and probably would of got a nice zenkai boost from his fight with fat Buu, but he also lost the Majin power.

    Kid Buu seems to actually have an easier time taking out Fat Buu then Vegeta though in that final fight, which does show that Vegeta is more powerful then Fat Buu to me though. The only reason fat buu beat Vegeta the first time in my opinion is because Vegeta was running out of gas and Buu's regeneration. Vegeta was actually the stronger fighter.

    So if you were to rank the individual fighters after the Buu saga before the time skip it would be Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Goku > Kid buu > Vegeta > Fat Buu where fat buu and Vegeta are about equal.

    Edit: Laurcus beat me to it. I also assumed you just meant DBZ. 57.6 septillion eh?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 03:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    What does that even mean?
    I think Genn's saying that Goku has strength of spirit well Vegeta has strength of body. Goku will never give up, ever, or turn down a fight when even Vegeta on occasion has just been like well "Fuck this". On the other hand though Vegeta trained at 400x gravity before he was even a Super Saiyan, Goku only did 100. Not to mention Vegeta took the biggest beating anyone ever took in DBZ at the hands of Kid Buu and still was able to move around. I think that's what Genn's getting at. Vegeta trains 10x as hard as Goku does. As Goku says in the cell saga though, their power isn't just based on how hard they train.
    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2013-02-21 at 08:20 PM.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  12. #5392
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    sneep
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    snap
    oh wow, thank you both for the elaborate replies ! that's awesome.
    I gotta go back and rewatch Dragon Ball Z, I can't remenber most things past Trunks Killing Freezer.

    Anyway, so simply getting a beating isn't the way to raise your power level eh? Is Vegeta's pride what pulls him back?

    Also, at the end of Dragon Ball Z, how's his personality? is he still arrogant as he was, say, the first time he fought against Goku?

  13. #5393
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    With this new god information from the movie. Does anyone else ever take a step back and wonder just how the story got here from that first season of original dragonball. It blows my mind sometimes, just at how it's grown and the scale of it now. I get the same feeling when I look at warcraft lore, I guess maybe because it's grown with me?
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  14. #5394
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    oh wow, thank you both for the elaborate replies ! that's awesome.
    I gotta go back and rewatch Dragon Ball Z, I can't remenber most things past Trunks Killing Freezer.

    Anyway, so simply getting a beating isn't the way to raise your power level eh? Is Vegeta's pride what pulls him back?

    Also, at the end of Dragon Ball Z, how's his personality? is he still arrogant as he was, say, the first time he fought against Goku?
    I don't think anything's holding Vegeta back per se. He gets stronger, he just doesn't keep up with Goku very well. Goku has a natural talent that Vegeta simply doesn't. As for personality, Vegeta pulls the stick out of his ass after the Cell saga. By the end of the Buu saga him and Goku are total bros.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  15. #5395
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    oh wow, thank you both for the elaborate replies ! that's awesome.
    I gotta go back and rewatch Dragon Ball Z, I can't remenber most things past Trunks Killing Freezer.

    Anyway, so simply getting a beating isn't the way to raise your power level eh? Is Vegeta's pride what pulls him back?

    Also, at the end of Dragon Ball Z, how's his personality? is he still arrogant as he was, say, the first time he fought against Goku?
    His pride is his greatest strength and weakness. Vegeta realizes what holds him back while watching Goku start fighting Kid Buu for round 2 after saving his ass again. He always tries to be the most powerful fighter, but thats not what actually truly fuels a saiyan. We see through Goku that what feeds them most and helps them to grow is fighting a battle that seems hopeless. Finding an impossible challenge and overcoming it. Something Vegeta as a master tactician never understood truly until that point. That's what Goku lives for.

    Found the exact speech actually.


    As for his personality, he comes around. He learns a lot from Goku. He still always keeps the core of his character though, that pride. He wouldn't be Vegeta without it.
    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2013-02-21 at 08:53 PM.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  16. #5396
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I don't think anything's holding Vegeta back per se. He gets stronger, he just doesn't keep up with Goku very well. Goku has a natural talent that Vegeta simply doesn't. As for personality, Vegeta pulls the stick out of his ass after the Cell saga. By the end of the Buu saga him and Goku are total bros.
    This is very simple yet it makes me understand it.

    I'm gonna make a somewhat ridiculous comparison, but it's like in that movie, what's its name... The Black Swam.

    One of the ballerinas is very technical, she trains for hours and hours and she has almost perfect skills, yet, she lacks the charisma needed to be the White Swam in the play.

    Sorry if that was stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    awesome line
    "it makes me angry just to think about it''

    haha, Vegeta at his best - That's a nice find, thanks for putting up that link for us, I had never seen it before.

  17. #5397
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    i dont know if this has been linked yet, but i stumbled upon it and i couldn't stop laughing so i thought i'd share.

    i present to you, DRAGONS BALLS P!


    The most retarded parody of anything i've yet to see, so stupid its funny.
    Last edited by Martinussen; 2013-02-22 at 12:14 AM.
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
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  18. #5398
    Super saiyan god, hnnnnnnnng.

    inb4 goku in broly form.

    lol fack GT,

  19. #5399
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Why is it that the movie isn't even out yet, yet I'm already picturing an Abridged version with characters being happy GT is being official de-canoned (assuming that happens).

  20. #5400
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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