1. #6501
    Mechagnome shootyadead's Avatar
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    So I started re-watching DBZ a few days ago and got through the Frieza Saga and had a thought. We know later on, that Goku is insanely powerful and godlike. Well something stood out to me and made me start thinking about this. After Frieza is destroyed and Namek explodes, Goku is off in space somewhere right? Well the Z warriors gather the dragonballs and they try to wish Goku home. Here's my thought....Goku denied the wish. Nowhere else in the series do we see the Shinron or Parunga unable to grant a wish because of the desires of the person involved, it's always a limitation on their own powers. That's not the case here. Here, Goku flat out denies the dragon. WTF? That's a huge plot point that doesn't really get pointed out but just goes to show how insanely powerful he really is.
    "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!!!"

  2. #6502
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    It could be that the dragon isn't strong enough to take Goku against his will. There is also a possibility that Goku has already learned Instant Transmission, and every time the dragon grabs him, he keeps porting back.

    I'm kind of curious as to how Goku knew they were trying to wish him back though.

  3. #6503
    Perhaps he could feel the dragon/'s energy reaching out to/for him?

  4. #6504
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Well basically it is this. The dragon was never put into that position before. A dragon also cannot kill an individual based on a wish unless said person is stronger than they whom they want to kill. The dragon respects the individual. Obviously Shenron or Parunga, well possibly the latter are incredibly powerful beings (Shenron was killed by King Piccolo in DB right?) I would say that Parunga would have easily defeated nearly every foe other than Freeza with raw power alone. These two dragons never were put into a position to kill, or go against the will of an individual. They likely would rather not even bother. At least they are nice enough to say alright try another wish rather than Wish granted but fuck you it didnt work.

    Another theory. The dragon is only as powerful as its creator. Kami created Shenron, Kami is also a weak individual compared to the rest of the cast, even in his prime his power level never surpassed 300 until he fused with Piccolo Jr. Also Guru was not a powerful individual, but had a grand array of abilities. He was likely on par with the Ginyu force in his prime. Which is why Parunga can defy more laws of the universe, but that takes its toll so he is unable to revive multiple people at once.

    Once again Goku could easily defy these dragons because he was much more powerful than both Kami and Guru have ever been. The dragons also seem to not give a damn if Goku were to say no to them.

    The only dragon to defy the will of an individual was Dark Dragonball Shenron. The red one created by the original super Namek (prior to the diffusion of Kami and King Piccolo) This dragon made Goku into a child against his will, because the super Namek was unparalleled in power. It took super saiyan 4 goku to break that magic since his 4th form brought him back to his adult body.


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  5. #6505
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    how diff would dbz be if



    Vegetina princess of all saiyans came to earth.... maybe she woulda got with yamcha!
    I actually had a dream once where Vegeta was a female, and Goku ended up with her (no Chi Chi obviously.) Though, based on their personalities, it likely would have been better for Goku to be the female.

    What can I say? Despite being my favorite show ever, it definitely lacked in the awesome female department. I always thought Vegeta and 18 would have made a fitting couple, but she was wasted on Krillin of all people.

  6. #6506
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Yeah they never did a good job on a good female character, many animes fail at that. I guess Bulma counts, but she was not a fighter.

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  7. #6507
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    And then what cool females there were, all got pussified in GT.

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  8. #6508
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Well basically it is this. The dragon was never put into that position before. A dragon also cannot kill an individual based on a wish unless said person is stronger than they whom they want to kill. The dragon respects the individual.
    Well, it's strange that Goku's wishes are respected when he declines being wished back to Earth but Vegeta's wishes aren't respected when he doesn't want to be transported to Earth as he is just having a go at Frieza after being resurrected.

    Come on, don't tell me Vegeta actually wanted to be transported, he wanted to fight, or at the very least see Goku and Frieza fight. It just seems to contradict what you're saying. You have the dragon respecting Goku, but not Vegeta. Is the dragon biased? Hah.

  9. #6509
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Well, it's strange that Goku's wishes are respected when he declines being wished back to Earth but Vegeta's wishes aren't respected when he doesn't want to be transported to Earth as he is just having a go at Frieza after being resurrected.

    Come on, don't tell me Vegeta actually wanted to be transported, he wanted to fight, or at the very least see Goku and Frieza fight. It just seems to contradict what you're saying. You have the dragon respecting Goku, but not Vegeta. Is the dragon biased? Hah.
    Then my next theory. Vegeta is much weaker than Goku at this point. The dragons could over power him.

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  10. #6510
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Then my next theory. Vegeta is much weaker than Goku at this point. The dragons could over power him.
    Vegeta was a bad guy. The dragons recognized Goku as a hero, and that's why they more asked him than made him. That, and it's possible they can see into the future, and knew that Goku would be needed later on to fix a bunch of other stuff, so they let him do his thing.

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  11. #6511
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Could also be a mass wish v a solo wish

    The dragon does not have enough time to give a damn about everyone they will bring to where ever, but they can ask the single individual

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  12. #6512
    Mechagnome shootyadead's Avatar
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    The theory about mass wish vs. solo wish is invalid because the dragons didn't ask Piccolo if he wanted to be transported to Namek during the Frieza saga, they just transported him there. But Genn what you said in an earlier post, the dragons don't seem to care if Goku says no to them...that's what I'm wondering about. It seems like he's the only one that can do that. Everyone else just has to suck it up and deal with whatever they do.
    "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!!!"

  13. #6513
    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    The theory about mass wish vs. solo wish is invalid because the dragons didn't ask Piccolo if he wanted to be transported to Namek during the Frieza saga, they just transported him there. But Genn what you said in an earlier post, the dragons don't seem to care if Goku says no to them...that's what I'm wondering about. It seems like he's the only one that can do that. Everyone else just has to suck it up and deal with whatever they do.
    Piccolo was the one who planned that series of wishes out though, he asked for that wish to be made. Vegeta didn't.

  14. #6514
    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    The theory about mass wish vs. solo wish is invalid because the dragons didn't ask Piccolo if he wanted to be transported to Namek during the Frieza saga, they just transported him there. But Genn what you said in an earlier post, the dragons don't seem to care if Goku says no to them...that's what I'm wondering about. It seems like he's the only one that can do that. Everyone else just has to suck it up and deal with whatever they do.
    Yeah, I think it makes about as much sense as Goku suddenly being able to talk telepathically with people.

  15. #6515
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Yeah, I think it makes about as much sense as Goku suddenly being able to talk telepathically with people.
    Have you noticed how randomly that ability is used? Namekians seem to be able to do it naturally, and Goku probably learned the basics from King Kai, yet they rarely ever use it except for long distances. You'd think it would be useful for communicating without the enemy overhearing.

    Also, why do people talk out loud when King Kai is talking in their heads?

  16. #6516
    Battle of Gods dub confirmed? (starts at 2:20ish)

    Also, new video game coming out if that hasn't been discussed here yet.


  17. #6517
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
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    the game looks amazingly fun if you have 4-8 ppl to play it with xD but like most of these games it's utterly boring to play alone in my opinion.

  18. #6518
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    And then what cool females there were, all got pussified in GT.
    Yeah it's a shame. Pan had so many great opportunities where she could've turned SSJ. I think I found... 3? Something like that. The first being where she kills one of the Sigma force. Also, Videl had a lot of potential as well. Not as much as Pan of course, but she still could've put up a good fight. The only problem though is that it would require an immense power level since anyone short of Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are useless.

    The humans can't do anything. One hit and they're down. Piccolo being the only one that can actually stand a few hits and even he gets beat up pretty quickly. Then there's Trunks and Goten who also don't do much aside from fusion, which they didn't even do in GT. Gohan in DBZ was a badass in Cell saga and then again when he was Mystic, but it all went to shit in GT. Vegeta is truly the only other person besides Goku to ever really do anything meaningful. His physical strength let's him take a huge beating. So even if he isn't inflicting the most damage, he's at least able to stall long enough for Goku to do his thing.

  19. #6519
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Probably the worst offender for wasted potential was Uub though. Pan should have been able to reach at least SSJ and fight evenly with Goten and Trunks, since she was shown as more interested in fighting then them, so she would be taking her training more seriously. Realistically, I doubt Videl thought of fighting or training much once she got married. She was basically next-gen Chi Chi.

    Uub, though... he already started out as equal to a non-transformed Goku without any training. After the 10 or so years of training with Goku, we can assume he had unlocked all of Kid Buu's fighting skill and energy, as well as a bit extra. He then takes it the next step by bonding with Good Buu and gaining magical powers.

    And after all that, he lasted for what? One episode? An episode and a half, maximum. Then he was back with the rest of the fodder.

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  20. #6520
    So far it's just been Goten, Trunks and Majuub. Wasn't Gohan in episode one, though? I don't remember what happened to him. Episode three is going to be amazing.

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