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  1. #7121
    The Undying GennGreymane's Avatar
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    some dbz multiverse here
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  2. #7122


    still my fave

  3. #7123
    This may piss some of you goku lovers off. But in DBz and BGT goku has never beat anyone One vs One. So goku isn't really that strong just resilient at fighting,

  4. #7124
    Stood in the Fire Turin's Avatar
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    Didn't Goku beat Frieza 100% one on one? I think we can ignore pretty much anything that happened before he switched to full power. (and IIRC Gohan helping Goku only happened in anime).
    Regardless of that, saying Goku is not that strong.................. do I really need to respond to that?

    And even then, did any of the others beat a major enemy one on one?

    And if we add anime only (cause I'm not sure exactly what happened in manga and anime), Goku beat several opponents in Other World Tournament, one on one.
    And Nappa, though he was damaged from the others.
    Last edited by Turin; 2013-10-28 at 01:38 AM.

  5. #7125
    That's my point, Every Villian in DBZ was never beat one on one. They were always worn down by others or something before Goku steps in. As for the Comics/manga/same shit No idea never read them. AS for the tournament that doesn't count because that's not a major issue.

  6. #7126
    Quote Originally Posted by Naftc View Post
    That's my point, Every Villian in DBZ was never beat one on one. They were always worn down by others or something before Goku steps in. As for the Comics/manga/same shit No idea never read them. AS for the tournament that doesn't count because that's not a major issue.
    Actually, versus Freeza, no one else even made Freeza break a sweat. He was fighting at, what, 2% before Goku went Super Saiyan?

    And as far as I know, in GT, Goku was the only one who fought the dragons.

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  7. #7127
    The Undying GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Also when Freeza went from form 3 to his form 4, he pretty much didnt have any of the damage from the previous forms



    he even got his tail back!

    Also He did battle Vegeta, he didnt hurt Freeza at all. Piccolo intervened while Goku charged the spirit bomb, Piccolo also didnt hurt Freeza.

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  8. #7128
    True, but he did have pan and that rarely..went ss4 forgot about that.. Sorry for the inconvenience.


    Edit. Yeah but that's my point, Goke always had something to intervene to have him win. I think his only real fight that was One V One was the android before his heart attack.

    Edit 2, Gotta head to bed for work. but think about it. Has Goku ever fought an enemy that was worthy of him to fight alone? No he really hasn't Which makes me think you know,
    Last edited by Raptor With a Saber; 2013-10-28 at 05:20 AM.

  9. #7129
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    His fights against Nappa and Recoome were so one-sided that the others fighting them earlier didn't even matter.

    He was beating Ginyu until the body switch.

    He held back against SS2 Majin Vegeta.


    I think the main reason is because they stopped doing full tournaments after DB. If you look at most Shounen, the main bad guy of any arc usually faces a gauntlet of protagonists, with the hero showing up late.

  10. #7130
    Stood in the Fire Turin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naftc View Post
    True, but he did have pan and that rarely..went ss4 forgot about that.. Sorry for the inconvenience.


    Edit. Yeah but that's my point, Goke always had something to intervene to have him win. I think his only real fight that was One V One was the android before his heart attack.

    Edit 2, Gotta head to bed for work. but think about it. Has Goku ever fought an enemy that was worthy of him to fight alone? No he really hasn't Which makes me think you know,
    I don't see why that means Goku isn't that strong but merely resilient. Even though he rarely singlehandedly defeated an opponent, every time a stronger being showed up he matched it's strength. He surpassed Frieza, he surpassed the androids, he surpassed Cell and even eventually matched (at the least) Buu. He may not necessarily be stronger than major villains during their time, but he did in the end surpass them all. To me, that means he is just as powerful as I always imagined him to be.

    Besides, in the end, the reason for Goku not being stronger than the opponents is for plot. It would be rather boring if Goku was strong enough to beat every villain on his own. It's far more interesting to have others help him out to some extent.

  11. #7131
    Quote Originally Posted by Naftc View Post
    This may piss some of you goku lovers off. But in DBz and BGT goku has never beat anyone One vs One. So goku isn't really that strong just resilient at fighting,
    Inductive fallacy: Goku's win/loss ratio has no bearing on his power. Someone can win every fight they're ever in and be weak, or lose every fight they're ever in and be very powerful. All a loss means is that at the time Goku's opponent got the upper hand on him, due to any number of factors such as superior current power, (Cell) or outside influences, (Android 19) it does not make him stronger or weaker.

    The fact is, Goku surpasses everyone by many magnitudes of power in the end.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  12. #7132
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Inductive fallacy: Goku's win/loss ratio has no bearing on his power. Someone can win every fight they're ever in and be weak, or lose every fight they're ever in and be very powerful. All a loss means is that at the time Goku's opponent got the upper hand on him, due to any number of factors such as superior current power, (Cell) or outside influences, (Android 19) it does not make him stronger or weaker.

    The fact is, Goku surpasses everyone by many magnitudes of power in the end.

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  13. #7133
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    The fact is, Goku surpasses everyone by many magnitudes of power in the end.
    If you mean at the time he flew away with Uub, I agree.

    Otherwise I would say Gohan was stronger at the time Buu was defeated but because Goku is the main character, Gohan didn't get a chance to fight Buu a second time (after earth's revival)
    he beat the crap out of Buu before he absorbed Gotenks without even transforming into a ssj.

    to bad he didn't train anymore after that fight.

  14. #7134
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    If you mean at the time he flew away with Uub, I agree.

    Otherwise I would say Gohan was stronger at the time Buu was defeated but because Goku is the main character, Gohan didn't get a chance to fight Buu a second time (after earth's revival)
    he beat the crap out of Buu before he absorbed Gotenks without even transforming into a ssj.

    to bad he didn't train anymore after that fight.
    Of course, I am referring to when he flew away with Uub. Gohan was certainly the strongest during the fight with Buu, and honestly, I never understood why nobody thought to just use the Dragon Balls to wish Gohan to Planet Kaishin so he could murder Kid Buu.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  15. #7135
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Of course, I am referring to when he flew away with Uub. Gohan was certainly the strongest during the fight with Buu, and honestly, I never understood why nobody thought to just use the Dragon Balls to wish Gohan to Planet Kaishin so he could murder Kid Buu.
    My theory is, Buu couldn't be killed by any simple means. No matter how much stronger you were than him, his body would always regenerate. It would have to take something special to kill him, something that could completely wipe him out. As far as I know, there was no explanation as to what or why his body did what it did. Unlike Cell, who explained it all. Only something with the mystical power of the Spirit Bomb could destroy him for good.

    Though all that is moot, because nobody really knew that, and anyone's only thought ever is "only Goku can save us now". Thanks for ruining the good characters (Gohan and Piccolo) Buu Saga.
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2013-10-28 at 11:39 PM.

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  16. #7136
    The Undying GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Everyone of Cell's cells had to be destroyed, every single one of Buu's atoms/protons/eletrons all had to be destroyed.

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  17. #7137
    Stood in the Fire Turin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    he beat the crap out of Buu before he absorbed Gotenks without even transforming into a ssj.
    I just want to reply to this.
    Gohan at that point didn't go ssj because there was no point. Old Kai unlocked Gohan's full potential in such a way that Gohan in normal state wasn't any weaker than a ssj state.
    It's called Mystic Gohan IIRC

  18. #7138
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  19. #7139
    Stood in the Fire Turin's Avatar
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    Ahaha, Roshi: I wasn't born bald. This is the first time I realized the irony of that statement. How did I miss it all this time!

  20. #7140
    Quote Originally Posted by Turin View Post
    Ahaha, Roshi: I wasn't born bald. This is the first time I realized the irony of that statement. How did I miss it all this time!
    LOL, now that you point it out.. How could i not get that <.<

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