1. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I've heard some people say a Super Saiyan can't use Kaioken.
    They would be the ones that didn't watch every filler episode of DBZ. As I remember, Goku used "Super" Kaioken, while being Super Saiyan, during the fight with Pikkon in the Tournament, in the afterlife.

  2. #1902
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ultimate Magic World
    Posts
    2,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I think Mecha-Frieza too, but it's hard to tell. Goku definitely could have beaten 19 if not for the virus, but 19 was able to hurt both Goku and Vegeta. Future Trunks wasted Mecha-Frieza without trying, and he was about the same strength as Goku was three years prior to the Androids. Three years later, after lots of training, we can assume Goku has grown stronger in that time. Now, when Vegeta goes SS, he claims to be stronger than Goku (This is just my memory, plus Vegeta always thinks he is better than Goku when he gets stronger).

    19's power-absorption might give him an edge, though I think that would only work if he grabbed one of Frieza's biological parts, which is only about a quarter of his body.
    And unfortunately, without power levels, we'll never truly know
    Men!

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I picked Biden because he may throw Obama into the Death Star's reactor core, restoring balance to the Force.

    Now having a ball on SWTOR!

  3. #1903
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    7,508
    Goku's Pl is 180k? Booyah Ginyu, what ya gunna do now?

  4. #1904
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ultimate Magic World
    Posts
    2,808
    I'm going to bed now. My favorite character better not be dead in the DBZ story one liners by the time I wake up.

    Or I'll hit all of you with my Genocide Breaker.
    Men!

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I picked Biden because he may throw Obama into the Death Star's reactor core, restoring balance to the Force.

    Now having a ball on SWTOR!

  5. #1905
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    1. i dunno that is how i heard it was described let me find it (i think the abridged referenced to it a bit)

    2. because it seems no saiyan has it after becoming super.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-09 at 05:52 AM ----------

    i may be wrong on 2

    http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Zenkai
    I see. Sounds like fanon to me. Of course it seems like they no longer have the ability, power levels are never mentioned again. At least, on a cursory glance. There is actually evidence that the ability isn't for some reason lost after becoming Super Saiyan. Aside from the Cell thing, think about Goku vs Frieza. One year after their fight, Goku comes back to Earth and he's strong enough to beat Frieza with one finger. Trunks said it himself. He used the same attacks against Goku that killed Frieza almost instantly, and Goku defended himself easily with one finger. Sure, he spent most of that year in training, but he also said that he only had time to learn one technique, the instant transmission. So one could argue that he was just learning that instead of doing actual training.

    Besides, it just seems like a silly assumption to me. It's said that Saiyans have this ability, and there's no mention of them losing it. It also doesn't make sense logically. Super Saiyans are supposed to be the ultimate warriors. That ability is so ridiculously useful, it doesn't really make sense for a Super Saiyan to not have it.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  6. #1906
    Mechagnome shootyadead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I see. Sounds like fanon to me. Of course it seems like they no longer have the ability, power levels are never mentioned again. At least, on a cursory glance. There is actually evidence that the ability isn't for some reason lost after becoming Super Saiyan. Aside from the Cell thing, think about Goku vs Frieza. One year after their fight, Goku comes back to Earth and he's strong enough to beat Frieza with one finger. Trunks said it himself. He used the same attacks against Goku that killed Frieza almost instantly, and Goku defended himself easily with one finger. Sure, he spent most of that year in training, but he also said that he only had time to learn one technique, the instant transmission. So one could argue that he was just learning that instead of doing actual training.

    Besides, it just seems like a silly assumption to me. It's said that Saiyans have this ability, and there's no mention of them losing it. It also doesn't make sense logically. Super Saiyans are supposed to be the ultimate warriors. That ability is so ridiculously useful, it doesn't really make sense for a Super Saiyan to not have it.
    Indeed. I figure at the power levels that they are at they kinda just forget about the abliities they had pre SSJ. Probably more along the lines of "hey we don't need to do the same things we used to do before we got this power (aside from spirit bomb of course).

    Oh also I found another reference to Saiyans being able to breath in space. In the "Trouble On Arlia" episode, both Vegeta and Nappa are outside of their pods after blowing the planet up and both seem to be just fine without breathing. I know it's been theorized that they are inside a bubble of sorts from their space pods, but consider this: How man different planets did the saiyans originally get sent to? Now, out of those planets, how many of them had oxygen as a main source for breathing? I think it's much more likely to just assume that Saiyans don't need oxygen to breath and are fine just about anywhere.
    Last edited by shootyadead; 2012-05-09 at 10:32 AM.
    "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!!!"

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    Indeed. I figure at the power levels that they are at they kinda just forget about the abliities they had pre SSJ. Probably more along the lines of "hey we don't need to do the same things we used to do before we got this power (aside from spirit bomb of course).

    Oh also I found another reference to Saiyans being able to breath in space. In the "Trouble On Arlia" episode, both Vegeta and Nappa are outside of their pods after blowing the planet up and both seem to be just fine without breathing. I know it's been theorized that they are inside a bubble of sorts from their space pods, but consider this: How man different planets did the saiyans originally get sent to? Now, out of those planets, how many of them had oxygen as a main source for breathing? I think it's much more likely to just assume that Saiyans don't need oxygen to breath and are fine just about anywhere.
    I already knew about the Arlia episode, but that's a very very good point about them conquering planets. Most planets don't have breathable atmosphere so that makes perfect sense.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  8. #1908
    Mechagnome shootyadead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I already knew about the Arlia episode, but that's a very very good point about them conquering planets. Most planets don't have breathable atmosphere so that makes perfect sense.
    I just figure that's got to be the most reasonable explanation. Otherwise you'd see them at some point wearing some sort of breathing aparatus. Not to mention all the times during the Frieza saga where they're breathing just fine underwater.
    "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!!!"

  9. #1909
    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    Now, out of those planets, how many of them had oxygen as a main source for breathing? I think it's much more likely to just assume that Saiyans don't need oxygen to breath and are fine just about anywhere.
    Well you also have to consider that somehow everyone speaks the same language.

  10. #1910
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Master Suite at 10 Downing ST. SW. AZ. 11111
    Posts
    16,991
    ancient aliens guy

    *aliens*

    exactly they all speak perfect japanese/english (well not really) and breath the same air

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise REGGIE! MY BODY IS READY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Well you also have to consider that somehow everyone speaks the same language.
    Well, other languages are mentioned. Bulma makes a universal translator that allows Captain Ginyu to talk with her as a toad. It's not inconceivable that aliens have similar technology, possible built into their scouters. We also don't know the physiology of the various aliens. It's possible that at least some of them can master new languages instantly. Namekians and the Frieza species also have their own language.

    And lack of breathable atmosphere on planets is also mentioned. When Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan land on Namek Bulma berates them for exiting the ship without space suits on, as she hadn't tested the atmosphere yet.

    It is also possible that most races actually speak the same language. It would kind of make sense if you think about it. Daikaio could have just made the universe that way, and then certain species developed their own languages and dialects over time. It would certainly make sorting out things in the afterlife a lot easier.

    These are all of course just theories though.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  12. #1912
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    7,508
    One of Frieza's ancient ancestors (before Chilled) successfully conquered the universe, and made everyone speak his language. Then he died and his empire collapsed.

  13. #1913
    Bloodsail Admiral Mortisia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Same country as Radek Zelenka
    Posts
    1,176
    Translator microbes which are highly contagious...

    "Dude, why are you dead again?" "Because I'm raid-leading, doh..."
    Mess with the best, die like the rest...
    >>>Goes by name Samyaza<<<

  14. #1914
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,646
    Maybe the Saiyan healing ability tops out? So by the end of the series when their power levels are in the billions or trillions that gaining that say max 6 million from the Zenkai, it might as well be gaining 6 because it's insignificant now.

    As for the language thing you can say that with absolutely any TV series that goes into space. There is always a universal translator on the people somewhere, or a common galactic trade language or something like that. Without something like that you can't have cool conversations with badass aliens, it just comes with the territory. No need for their to be logic behind it.
    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2012-05-09 at 07:28 PM.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  15. #1915
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Master Suite at 10 Downing ST. SW. AZ. 11111
    Posts
    16,991
    chilled was beat by bardock who likly only had a power level of what 1 million in super saiyan form? hell no

    the kais just liked english best


    also oh damn ginyu!!!! he can change bodies!

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise REGGIE! MY BODY IS READY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  16. #1916
    Legendary! Digglett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    FC World
    Posts
    6,385
    Quote Originally Posted by shootyadead View Post
    Either you're mistaken about what filler really is, or you're trying to hate on DBZ, the greatest anime ever.
    This is so wrong it hurts.


  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by Digglett View Post
    This is so wrong it hurts.
    I really don't see the point in trying to restart a flame war from like 20 pages ago. What's the best or worst show is all opinion anyway.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  18. #1918
    Legendary! Digglett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    FC World
    Posts
    6,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I really don't see the point in trying to restart a flame war from like 20 pages ago. What's the best or worst show is all opinion anyway.
    Was banned during it. Also, favorite and best show ever, aren't the same thing. That comment hurt my brain so bad I had to comment.


  19. #1919
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ultimate Magic World
    Posts
    2,808
    Goku is Ginyu?! And Ginyu is Goku? This could be bad. Surely Gohan and Krillin will recognize that isn't Goku's voice, personality or "good energy".
    Men!

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I picked Biden because he may throw Obama into the Death Star's reactor core, restoring balance to the Force.

    Now having a ball on SWTOR!

  20. #1920
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,646
    Was just watching some D3 videos. Came across a recent one on the barbarian. At one point (fury resource talk) in this video you can swear they are talking about Saiyans lol. The Barb even goes SSJ5 mode when they start talking about his fury resource and the Battle crys. Made me laugh anyway.

    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2012-05-09 at 08:55 PM.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •