1. #5221
    Quote Originally Posted by Catanowplx View Post
    No. We dont know Goku's strength by the end of GT, and we dont know Super mans exact strength. Besides, super man is in my opinion a stupid character made to never be able to fail. Even through all the super things he does, that seems quite unrealistic and unreal to me.
    Superman punched through reality, breaching and combining two separate universes. That sounds pretty damn close to those numbers you guys are throwing around.


  2. #5222
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    Superman punched through reality, breaching and combining two separate universes. That sounds pretty damn close to those numbers you guys are throwing around.
    We dont know if he barely managed to do that by using 100% of his maximum strength, or if he could've done better easily.

    It too late for me to do thinking beyond a 5 year olds capabilities at the moment, but iirc Buu started tearing dimensions apart purely from his anger when he got beaten by vegito, and then vegito stopped that fairly painlessly. I dont know how SS4 GT goku compares to vegitos PL at that point, but i wouldn't be surprised if its fairly close if not higher.
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  3. #5223
    Quote Originally Posted by Catanowplx View Post
    We dont know if he barely managed to do that by using 100% of his maximum strength, or if he could've done better easily.

    It too late for me to do thinking beyond a 5 year olds capabilities at the moment, but iirc Buu started tearing dimensions apart purely from his anger when he got beaten by vegito, and then vegito stopped that fairly painlessly. I dont know how SS4 GT goku compares to vegitos PL at that point, but i wouldn't be surprised if its fairly close if not higher.
    So what you're saying is...Goku is potentially stronger than that? Thanks for making my point for me.

    Also, sounds like Buu was enraged. There was no higher thought. He was incoherent and couldn't focus his strength and that's probably why Goku was able to beat him. Not because he was stronger.


  4. #5224
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    So what you're saying is...Goku is potentially stronger than that? Thanks for making my point for me.

    Also, sounds like Buu was enraged. There was no higher thought. He was incoherent and couldn't focus his strength and that's probably why Goku was able to beat him. Not because he was stronger.
    Buu was enraged because he couldn't beat Vegito.

  5. #5225
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    So what you're saying is...Goku is potentially stronger than that? Thanks for making my point for me.

    Also, sounds like Buu was enraged. There was no higher thought. He was incoherent and couldn't focus his strength and that's probably why Goku was able to beat him. Not because he was stronger.
    The version of Buu that ripped the time-space whatever holes in the universe was a different from than the one that ultimately died. The first version had already absorbed some people and gotten much stronger than any of his other forms. The big blob of childish Buu was the weakest form, because it had absorbed a benevolent god (for lack of a better explanation) that actually weakened him. The last version, Kid Buu, was the one Goku killed with the Spirit Bomb. While I'm not sure if current power affects how powerful the Spirit Bomb is, Goku wasn't in his best form when he pulled it off. He was weak from fighting and couldn't use Super Saiyan 3.

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  6. #5226
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Buu was enraged because he couldn't beat Vegito.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    The version of Buu that ripped the time-space whatever holes in the universe was a different from than the one that ultimately died. The first version had already absorbed some people and gotten much stronger than any of his other forms. The big blob of childish Buu was the weakest form, because it had absorbed a benevolent god (for lack of a better explanation) that actually weakened him. The last version, Kid Buu, was the one Goku killed with the Spirit Bomb. While I'm not sure if current power affects how powerful the Spirit Bomb is, Goku wasn't in his best form when he pulled it off. He was weak from fighting and couldn't use Super Saiyan 3.
    I'll grant you that but


    Did Goku ever break any dimensions? I think not. Just because he was able to kill someone doesn't mean he had a stronger power level. Arya Stark killed adult size men on her own and she's a small, mousish child.


  7. #5227
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    I'll grant you that but


    Did Goku ever break any dimensions? I think not. Just because he was able to kill someone doesn't mean he had a stronger power level. Arya Stark killed adult size men on her own and she's a small, mousish child.
    Why would Goku want to break dimensions? However, Gotenks was able to break through the alternate dimension in the Hyperbolic time chamber by yelling real loud.

    As for Arya, all fights in Dragon Ball are determined by strength, or occasionally by regeneration.

  8. #5228
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Why would Goku want to break dimensions? However, Gotenks was able to break through the alternate dimension in the Hyperbolic time chamber by yelling real loud.
    The Hyperbolic time chamber is a pocket dimension though and therefore weaker than normal dimensional walls.


  9. #5229
    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    I'll grant you that but


    Did Goku ever break any dimensions? I think not. Just because he was able to kill someone doesn't mean he had a stronger power level. Arya Stark killed adult size men on her own and she's a small, mousish child.
    I legit facepalm when I read this.

  10. #5230
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    You could argue breaking the dimensions was something that only Buu could do. However, Piccolo and Gotenks manage to do the same when Buu breaks out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and Piccolo and Gotenks remained stuck in there (and with the entrance destroyed, they would be trapped forever).

    Other than some special abilities, pretty much any move done in the show is actually based on power level.

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  11. #5231
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    My god where are you getting these numbers from!
    The show. 5 Is the power level of the farmer on Raditz's scouter. Future Trunks also had a reading of 5 when he was suppressed. Goku in the first episode of Dragon Ball had a power level of 10 according to the Daizenshuu, and during that episode Bulma shoots him in the face and he picks up Bulma's car. Goku drags a huge boulder during his training with Master Roshi, (smaller boulders in real life weigh closer to 600 tons, 300 is just a conservative estimate) and Goku is beaten by Mercenary Tao, who has a PL of 110. Roshi destroys the moon with his kamehameha wave, which has a power level of 180 according to the Daizenshuu. 5,000 was Goku's power level when he flew across Snake Way in 27-28 hours. Assuming Snake Way is straight that's 13,018 MPH. Obviously Snake Way is not straight, hence me using the approximate symbol instead of an equal sign. Vegeta has a PL of 18k when he threatened to destroy the Earth. Goku can sense energy and he took the threat seriously. Vegeta also destroys Arlia, so that's confirmed in my book. 90,000 Is Goku's PL when he fights the Ginyu Force. By basic logic he had to have been moving faster than light, because he was clearly phasing through their attacks, not dodging them. Broly destroys a quarter of the universe in his movie. A semi official power reading puts Broly at 1.4 billion, but I used 900 mil because based on character statements Goku's power level was at least 900 mil in the Cell saga, and I don't consider V-Jump to be a legitimate authority on power levels, as they have about as much to do with DBZ as Blizzard does with Call of Duty, and Broly is at least as strong as Cell saga Goku. 14.4 Sextillion is the minimum power level for Kibito Kai, and Super Buu, (the one capable of destroying dimensions) is greater than or equal to Kibito Kai, so I use that as a potential minimum. And I know Kibito Kai's power level is at least 14.4 sextillion because of page 63 of the Super Exciting Guide it states that fusion via the earrings multiplies the power levels together of the two people that fuse. Supreme Kai states that he is 1,000 times stronger than Frieza, which puts him at 120 billion because the Daizenshuu confirmed Frieza's power level as 120 million. In his Daizenshuu entry, Kibito is stated to be equal to base form Gohan. Based on the fights in Babidi's space ship, it's safe to assume that base form Gohan is much stronger than Supreme Kai, but I use his power level for Kibito because putting it any higher would be guesswork, so that serves as a minimum. And 120 billion * 120 billion = 14.4 sextillion.

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    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 06:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    Superman punched through reality, breaching and combining two separate universes. That sounds pretty damn close to those numbers you guys are throwing around.
    Combining two universes is not the same as destroying a multiverse + heaven and hell, something Super Buu was capable of doing just by applying enough energy. And Super Buu is a trash tier character compared to GT Goku. So that doesn't really help Superman's side in any way. And yes, Goku does actually display the ability to shatter dimensional walls. He does it easily in GT, in his base form. But even if he didn't, it wouldn't matter, because Super Buu wasn't using any kind of special technique, he was basically just powering up. It's something anyone with enough energy could do, since all DBZ character's abilities work the same way. Except Babidi, but wizards don't count.

    And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know what I know, no more, no less. I don't know everything about DBZ, (god I wish) but I know a great deal more than nothing. And I will continue to analyze the series in an attempt to learn more, regardless of what people like you think.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 06:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    The Hyperbolic time chamber is a pocket dimension though and therefore weaker than normal dimensional walls.
    That is an assumption on your part. Care to back that up with facts?
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  12. #5232
    Telling Laurcus that he doesn't know a thing about DBZ is like telling Buu you ate all of his candies and there are no candies left in the world ..... his anger will shatter dimensions!

    On a more serious note, I wonder if the new DBZ movie and rumored continuation of Kai mean they are going to ignore GT and create new version of it ?

  13. #5233
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad586 View Post
    On a more serious note, I wonder if the new DBZ movie and rumored continuation of Kai mean they are going to ignore GT and create new version of it ?
    I doubt they'd write a new story for the continuation of Kai, that's simply too much work. It'll probably be just like the rest of Kai: trimmed, cleaned up, and with a new/altered script.

    I missed the conversation about the new DBZ movie, but SS3 Vegeta looks awesome. I always liked Vegeta's SS4 more as well.

  14. #5234
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    they better write off gt!!!!!!

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  15. #5235
    Quote Originally Posted by Letmesleep View Post
    I doubt they'd write a new story for the continuation of Kai, that's simply too much work. It'll probably be just like the rest of Kai: trimmed, cleaned up, and with a new/altered script.
    I think he meant that he's curious if they would rewrite GT with Toriyama. Which they totally should.

  16. #5236
    First off Goku and Superman would never fight to the death.

    They're both good and pure of heart.
    Neither would risk the destruction of Earth, unlike that video.
    Goku never killed anyone all of DBZ (excluding movies). (Yakon killed himself imo)
    Superman very rarely killed enemies as well.

    Ultimately Goku over comes the odds every time, he's capable of anything.
    At some point if he had to stop Superman, he would find a way to beat him with his words, to stop him, or krytonite.
    Goku doesn't have a krytonite, and for that reason alone, Goku would win.

  17. #5237
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iadamson View Post
    First off Goku and Superman would never fight to the death.

    They're both good and pure of heart.
    Neither would risk the destruction of Earth, unlike that video.
    Goku never killed anyone all of DBZ (excluding movies). (Yakon killed himself imo)
    Superman very rarely killed enemies as well.

    Ultimately Goku over comes the odds every time, he's capable of anything.
    At some point if he had to stop Superman, he would find a way to beat him with his words, to stop him, or krytonite.
    Goku doesn't have a krytonite, and for that reason alone, Goku would win.
    Kid Buu /10
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  18. #5238
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iadamson View Post
    First off Goku and Superman would never fight to the death.

    They're both good and pure of heart.
    Neither would risk the destruction of Earth, unlike that video.
    Goku never killed anyone all of DBZ (excluding movies). (Yakon killed himself imo)
    Superman very rarely killed enemies as well.

    Ultimately Goku over comes the odds every time, he's capable of anything.
    At some point if he had to stop Superman, he would find a way to beat him with his words, to stop him, or krytonite.
    Goku doesn't have a krytonite, and for that reason alone, Goku would win.
    He did kill Buu. He also killed King Piccolo before DBZ (and probably other characters, my memory pre-DBZ is pretty much rotten). Also, I'd say he did kill Yakon. He was, after all, the one who provided the energy to make him blow up, deliberately.
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  19. #5239
    Actually boys, he reincarnated Buu

    "I hope you come back again someday as a better person, I hope. Perhaps we'll have a little one on one"

    Then Goku patiently waited until the day he could meet Kid Buu again (Uub). Had a little one on one and trained him.

    This is purely speculation, but perhaps the full extent of the spirit bombs power, and Goku's ties to the other world gave him the ability to make a deal or just the power of the spirit bomb had this capability, none the less Goku arranged this some how.

    As for King Piccolo, I said DBZ, lol. I think he killed most of the red ribbon army too...
    But one could argue King Piccolo was some-what reborn.

    And yes, Yakon is arguable. But i'll just use this video to explain things.


    Yakon could have stopped whenever he wanted to prevent his own death, he suicided himself, lol.
    I guess Goku is guilty of assisted suicide at the most.

    Honestly it's like working at a restaurant, and a guy with an eating disorder comes in and you keep feeding him,and he keeps eating. He eats until his stomach bursts. Did you kill him? No, you didn't, you just didn't do anything to stop him from killing himself.
    Last edited by iadamson; 2013-02-05 at 06:38 PM.

  20. #5240
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Indeed you said DBZ, my bad

    You do have a point about Yakon, but I still maintain that Goku killed him. Poor Yakon

    As for Buu... he did kill him, he just hoped his soul would reincarnate as a good person, which it did a Uub. But Goku most definitely killed Buu.
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