1. #6221
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I think Gohan overdid himself against Frieza as well. Vegeta at one point is shocked of the kid's power and believes Gohan killed Frieza in his second form. And Frieza was really knocked out for a little while, so if the kid continued he might've even succeeded. Then later when he thinks Frieza killed Goku he even gets some shots in against Frieza in his final form (though not 100% power).

    He pretty much has these outbursts throughout the whole show.
    He also had a good chance against 3rd form Frieza after Piccolo was getting owned. Also, I think his shots against Final form Frieza were at 100%, because 50% never stood a chance against SS Goku, and I don't recall Gohan vs FF Frieza pre-SS Goku. That scene is anime only anyways though.

    Pre-SS2 though, I don't think Gohan's rages ever really did anything. Against Raditz, his mega headbutt didn't even knock him down. It just hurt him enough that he couldn't break Goku's full nelson. When he did his rage spike against Nappa after Piccolo died, Nappa deflects it with one hand. When he raged after Vegeta beat the tar out of Goku, he only got a few shots in, most of which were dodged or deflected. Recoome literally deflected his Masenko with his breath. After Krillin was impaled, he had a brief advantage of 2nd Form Frieza, but only caused a few bruises at most. He almost got 3rd form Frieza, but that just convinced him to go to his final form right then and there. After Frieza, it's never brought up again until Cell (unless you count the Garlic Jr. Saga).

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 06:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    i dont understand the whole rage argument if gohan can just get mad and transform then why didnt vegeta when cell killed trunks? Vegeta and trunks and goku for that matter couldnt have been to far off of lv2 vegeta got beat down and healed up 1-2 times since coming out of the time chamber so he should have been even more powerful. vegeta is the face of rage and anger he should have been the one to transform and kill cell under the circumstances of his son getting killed.
    Part of Gohan's story is that he gets much stronger when he's angry. This is something that is unique to him. I think the official reason is that his potential strength is stronger than Goku's or Vegeta's, but he can only unlock it while angry. Vegeta and Goku don't have the same hidden potential as Gohan, and get stronger through training and fighting.

  2. #6222
    Last edited by rad586; 2013-05-21 at 01:55 PM.

    Looking for a working online signature generator .....

  3. #6223
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  4. #6224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Part of Gohan's story is that he gets much stronger when he's angry. This is something that is unique to him. I think the official reason is that his potential strength is stronger than Goku's or Vegeta's, but he can only unlock it while angry. Vegeta and Goku don't have the same hidden potential as Gohan, and get stronger through training and fighting.
    And just when you think Gohan unlocked his full potential by becoming SS2, it's proven wrong when he loses a lot of power in the years after and Goku and Vegeta become more powerful than Gohan.

    And what about the Mystic form? Is that the full potential of Gohan? The mastery of his unique powers? Because I found it weird that he doesn't end up to be the strongest fighter even with that. Goku still beats him eventually.

    Gohan appears to have the most potential power, but not the most actual power. Only at various times does he briefly know how to use it.

  5. #6225
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    And just when you think Gohan unlocked his full potential by becoming SS2, it's proven wrong when he loses a lot of power in the years after and Goku and Vegeta become more powerful than Gohan.

    And what about the Mystic form? Is that the full potential of Gohan? The mastery of his unique powers? Because I found it weird that he doesn't end up to be the strongest fighter even with that. Goku still beats him eventually.

    Gohan appears to have the most potential power, but not the most actual power. Only at various times does he briefly know how to use it.
    I think Gohan just got mishandled. From what I can tell he WAS supposed to be the most powerful but every time Toriyama tried to make it so, fans b*tched that the show was about Goku so he had to "fix" it.

  6. #6226
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    Isn't it a bit of a "lesson" we often see in Animes? That those who work hard (Goku) eventually are stronger/better than those who have talent but are lazy (Gohan)?

    The behaviour of Gohan also shows his half human origin which makes him less violent and more educated than the wild saiyans.

  7. #6227
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    Isn't it a bit of a "lesson" we often see in Animes? That those who work hard (Goku) eventually are stronger/better than those who have talent but are lazy (Gohan)?

    The behaviour of Gohan also shows his half human origin which makes him less violent and more educated than the wild saiyans.
    Gohan isn't lazy, he's just not as motivated to fight as his father and Vegeta are. He fights when he has to, but not otherwise.

    I don't think he's anymore intelligent than they are either. Vegeta is a very intelligent tactician, and Goku is a brilliant fighter. Gohan just has more book-smarts than they do. Gohan can be violent as well (Such as Future Gohan, who was very serious and violent when it came to the Androids).

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  9. #6229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    Isn't it a bit of a "lesson" we often see in Animes? That those who work hard (Goku) eventually are stronger/better than those who have talent but are lazy (Gohan)?
    Well, when you apply this logic to Vegeta it suddenly stops being true. Because Vegeta trained harder than Goku, but Goku simply has more natural talent. I'm not saying Goku doesn't train, but it seems to come much easier for him than for Vegeta.

    And Gohan seems to have even more natural talent than Goku, but simply doesn't know how to use/access it very well.

  10. #6230
    This thread is way cooler than any dumb pony thread will ever be.
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  11. #6231
    Stood in the Fire Turin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Well, when you apply this logic to Vegeta it suddenly stops being true. Because Vegeta trained harder than Goku, but Goku simply has more natural talent. I'm not saying Goku doesn't train, but it seems to come much easier for him than for Vegeta.

    And Gohan seems to have even more natural talent than Goku, but simply doesn't know how to use/access it very well.
    But it does still apply to Vegeta. After all, Vegeta keeps surpassing Gohan aswell, simply not as fast as Goku. It's more like this:
    Goku (talent + lots of training) > Vegeta (less talented but looooots of training) > Gohan (super talented but near to zero training in times of peace)

  12. #6232
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    then there is goten

    baby he was born this way

  13. #6233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turin View Post
    But it does still apply to Vegeta. After all, Vegeta keeps surpassing Gohan aswell, simply not as fast as Goku. It's more like this:
    Goku (talent + lots of training) > Vegeta (less talented but looooots of training) > Gohan (super talented but near to zero training in times of peace)
    Ah yes, when you put it like that it does seem to make sense. I can see why Vegeta was disappointed with Gohan in the beginning of the Buu saga. So much wasted potential.

  14. #6234
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    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 06:48 PM ----------


  15. #6235
    Scarab Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    I think the reason Goku surpasses Vegeta everytime isn't only talent and hard work, but goku always gets trained by others learning new techniques and such, the only time I remember him training alone was when he was going to Namek in the ship at 100G... Vegeta trains by himself always... and thus doesn't learn anything new and it's harder to aquire power by yourself... at least that's how I see it.

  16. #6236
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    Thats a good point actually... Goku is the guy who is nice to everyone and always eager to learn from others while Vegeta basically is a asshole (with a good heart though) who doesn't think anyone could learn him anything. After Cell Saga thats actually true though... Pikkon is the only one in otherworld who is stronger than Cell and where Goku can still learn something.

    Still Vegeta has better teachers in his childhood... being trained by saiyans and other aliens with powerlevels that are way over 9000 is more effective than being trained by humans/guardians of earth who can't even reach a powerlevel of 500. Moreover he has way more experience being a saiyan warrior from his childhood conquering different worlds.

  17. #6237
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    maybe not the best teachers for vegeta, but most certainly the better combat experience.

  18. #6238
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  19. #6239
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    Who are the people in the 3rd card? It looks like a combo between Saibamen and the Ginyu Force.

    And lol at the 4th card. Is that a fusion between Mr. Satan and Krillin? or Goten?

  20. #6240
    Scarab Lord Master Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Who are the people in the 3rd card? It looks like a combo between Saibamen and the Ginyu Force.

    And lol at the 4th card. Is that a fusion between Mr. Satan and Krillin? or Goten?
    Per your first query, I actually do not know. I can't figure out who they are and I've never seen them in the manga or show.

    For the second card, that's based on the filler episode in Z where Goku imagines what him and Mr. Satan would look like if they fused. It's actually a very rare card because it doesn't exist in the manga.
    Last edited by Master Guns; 2013-05-26 at 12:45 AM.

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