1. #7021
    I really hated it when suddenly vegeta, gohan and co also became super saiyans...
    imo would have been much more epic if vegeta got an ancient saiyan power up
    for example instead turning into a giant ape, he would stay in his normal body size but would get the power from a giant ape and only growing some hair(sth like they did with ssj4)

  2. #7022
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    I really hated it when suddenly vegeta, gohan and co also became super saiyans...
    imo would have been much more epic if vegeta got an ancient saiyan power up
    for example instead turning into a giant ape, he would stay in his normal body size but would get the power from a giant ape and only growing some hair(sth like they did with ssj4)
    I liked everything about the SSJ except how they made the children SSJ as well. Everyone before the children SSJ had been pushed too their limits multiple times, even as far as close to getting killed.

  3. #7023
    yeah but since cell it was pretty much:
    "EVERYONE GO SUPER SAIYAN" who didn't was as useful as a trashcan

  4. #7024
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    yeah but since cell it was pretty much:
    "EVERYONE GO SUPER SAIYAN" who didn't was as useful as a trashcan
    Remember when Piccolo was as strong as Cell? Man..those were some times.

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  5. #7025
    SSJ for Goten and Trunks is ok imo... they have pretty much perfect conditions... Saiyan/Human Hybrids are said to generally have more potential: Look where Gohan is when he is a Teenager (SSJ2 = a few billion PL) and then look where Goku and Vegeta were as Teenager (Goku at PL 300 or something like that, Vegeta maybe a few thousand). Gohan simply didn't keep the path of a Warrior and we don't know about Goten/Trunks as GT isnt canon and DBZ ends before they are Adults.
    Moreover they can train with some of the best Fighters in the universe... Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo. AND as motiviation they have this rivalry between them (although they are friends).

    Of course it would have been cooler without kids... every SSJ would have his story:
    Goku while fighting a seemingly undefeatable villian who starts to kill his friends in front of him.
    Vegeta near death and full of anger that he is not "the" legendary SSJ.
    Future Trunks because his best Friend and nearly all of Mankind got killed by the Androids.
    Future Gohan because Piccolo and Krillin got killed by the Androids.

  6. #7026
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Remember when Piccolo was as strong as Cell? Man..those were some times.
    Or when he pwnd android 17 and after that he was pretty much only a spectator :/

  7. #7027
    Toriyama showed is from the beginning that Gohan had the potential to be more powerful than anyone (given his mood swings), and it was only a matter of time, especially once SSJ was revealed. I think the way they gave it to Gohan was acceptable, but (present) Trunks and Goten was kind of bullshit. Trunks shouldn't have gotten it until he saw Buu beating the crap out of Vegeta, Goten should have gotten it until something equally emotionally disturbing happened (losing Goku/Gohan/Chi Chi to Super Buu).

    It would have kept the whole theme they had for it with Goku's traing for Gohan ("The Super Saiyan transformation is a response to a need, not a desire."), and could have had the potential to keep it from becoming what we think of it now (pretty much summed up as Vegeta's "The Super Saiyan... Reduced to a child's mere plaything?! Preposterous!").

  8. #7028
    The Patient Dat Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turin View Post
    I disagree that it should have ended there. It's true that it was a good place to end, but the continuation was incredibly well done, IMO. Mainly Vegeta. His character development is one of the best. In many manga/anime, a villain that turns good, simply has a sudden change of heart. This was not the case with Vegeta and that's why it was so awesome.
    His whole change was a process that lasted over 10 years and is now still continuing.
    First, he came from being a full blown evil being that destroyed whatever came in his path. The first change didn't actually come from his own will, but came of necessity. Due to circumstances, he was forced to side with the humans. But even then it wasn't like he was a good guy. Then, during the whole Cell mess, we see Vegeta care about someone other than himself for the very first time. During the whole saga, he was still acting as his bastard self, but when it truly came down to it, it was shown that he cared.
    And then lastly, during the Buu saga. A temporary return to his evil self, but it appears that even then, he is still in control of himself. It is shown that he cares about more than just fighting and himself. He now has a family after all. But the most amazing moment was Vegeta accepting that Goku had more talent. And for the very first time, he truly cheered for Goku.

    It is rare that an evil villain has a believable path to becoming a good guy, but Vegeta's story definitely managed it. While I still watch dragonball for Goku, I don't want to see the series end, simply because of Vegeta and his continuous progression. Even with the recent movie, we see that Vegeta is still changing.
    God, I love that guy ^^
    Ah shucks, you won me over. I actually concur with you on all points (as hinted at in my original post), but my divided opinion on where the story should have ultimately ended (all points considered, not just Vegeta's character arc) has unduly influenced my stance on his personal story as well; but I concede your points - his development was always my favourite part of the Z saga, and he is undoubtedly one of my all time favourite fictional characters, so yeah: screw it! He deserved the opportunity to evolve as he did, fair enough

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    Also, I'm wondering what people's opinions on Battle of the Gods is (only managed to get around to watching it the other day) ...
    Myself? I enjoyed it quite a bit - a fun nostalgic romp that kept true to the original series' characters & style imo. It's obvious to me that Toriyama has retained his heart & still has a lot of love for the story.
    I'm also curious as to what the movie's conclusion means for the franchise as a whole? Do you think this will beget a new series of anime and/or manga with Toriyama at the helm (or another block of movies perhaps)? I'm sort of curious, but also nervous about such a prospect - given how these sorts of belated, long-term re-visitations of fictional universes rarely pan out for the good *coughstarwarscough*
    Thoughts?

  9. #7029
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    GT is non-canon so... they basically don't count.
    If GT is non-canon and doesn't count, then Pan not going SS in GT also doesn't count. The whole problem evens itself out. If we are to go by the information we have of Pan from DBZ then we hardly know anything about her, we don't know anything of her past the age of 5 (I think).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    It would have kept the whole theme they had for it with Goku's traing for Gohan ("The Super Saiyan transformation is a response to a need, not a desire."),
    I don't think being able to keep up with your dad is a desire, but at that point it is a need. Basically if you aren't a SS you're useless like Krillin, so it is very much a need.

  10. #7030


    I wish he would've appeared more in the series as he's my favorite character. A real shame.

  11. #7031
    Radittz is your favorite character lol? That's kind of odd lol.

  12. #7032
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    but he is sooo sexy

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  13. #7033
    He's definitely cool looking, although I wonder what his super saiyan forms would look like lol. What would be the difference between his SSj and SSJ2/3 forms lol? Idk, it's just a weird thought. His hair is already really long.

  14. #7034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    He's definitely cool looking, although I wonder what his super saiyan forms would look like lol. What would be the difference between his SSj and SSJ2/3 forms lol? Idk, it's just a weird thought. His hair is already really long.
    Reminds me when we first see Gohan go super saiyan, his hair is long and it almost looks SSJ3. Then I found this image.

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  15. #7035
    I still wonder why Vegeta and Goku never wish back Nappa and Raditz. Surely they could become stronger as well with enough training? Or could they wish back Planet Vegeta and their people? I just think it's sad that they're the only Saiyans left.

  16. #7036
    it would be very nice if they could convince the rest of the saiyan race to chill, but i highly doubt they'd be able to. i mean, vegeta himself isn't very nice and doesn't really care much for earth and earthlings. bardock has seen the way goku turned out and seemed like he would be about like vegeta, and if he's down for it, fasha and maybe the rest of his squad would be too.

    but really, it kinda seems like a bad idea lol. too much trouble beyond a few exceptional individuals.

  17. #7037
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I still wonder why Vegeta and Goku never wish back Nappa and Raditz. Surely they could become stronger as well with enough training? Or could they wish back Planet Vegeta and their people? I just think it's sad that they're the only Saiyans left.
    There's a time limit on wishing someone back to life, and it's 1 year from the time of their death.
    That makes wishing for Planet Vegeta with all it's inhabitants to be back simply impossible, due to how far in the past it's been destroyed. Planet itself can be wished back, but for what purpose ?

    Nappa and Raditz ? Who cares about them ?

    And not related to wishing, found this pic today on funnymamma:
    Last edited by rad586; 2013-10-07 at 09:54 AM.

  18. #7038
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Reminds me when we first see Gohan go super saiyan, his hair is long and it almost looks SSJ3. Then I found this image.
    I'd assume it'd be like the Hero Super Saiyan looked like in Ultimate Tenkaichi, who pretty much had Raditz's hair to a T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I still wonder why Vegeta and Goku never wish back Nappa and Raditz. Surely they could become stronger as well with enough training? Or could they wish back Planet Vegeta and their people? I just think it's sad that they're the only Saiyans left.
    Going by the Z Fighters' wish (that anyone killed by Frieza and his men be revived), technically Nappa should have been (Team Four Star had it right), so there's a possibility Nappa was on Earth all along, and just not doing anything.

  19. #7039
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Going by the Z Fighters' wish (that anyone killed by Frieza and his men be revived), technically Nappa should have been (Team Four Star had it right), so there's a possibility Nappa was on Earth all along, and just not doing anything.
    Heh, that would be pretty funny. Nappa would be weaker than Krillin or Yamcha at the end of DBZ.

  20. #7040
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