This is your chance to get Doomguard's CD fixed

[Jahrastafari]

So if you suicide on those you get an extra boomguard, while wasting Brezzes. Again, if your raid wants to waste Brezzes so that you can meter pad, why is there no problem with Shamans doing this?

Updated list to include other modes, besides 25H. Are you comfortable with Blizzard balancing their HMs around the expectation that smart teams are going to have battle reses available for players like me to drop 2 or more 1.5m+ Doomguards per encounter?

[mistuhbull]

Updated list to include other modes, besides 25H. Are you comfortable with Blizzard balancing their HMs around the expectation that smart teams are going to have battle reses available for players like me to drop 2 or more 1.5m+ Doomguards per encounter?

As long as you are OK with your multitude of wipes because YOU wanted to meter pad, and wasted Brezzes. Sorry, didn't know you could outplay a lag spike, or a DC. Guess i'll just have to mash my buttons harder so that the computer knows I am serious fucking business about my game.

[Kolo]

So long as you are fine with the myriad of progression wipes caused by your selfish meter padding.


Again

How many fights are actually 16 minutes or longer? How many are actually 6 minutes or longer? how about 11?

I'm pretty sure you are just trolling because I want to believe nobody could think ass backwards like this. When you have a boss on farm it's not selfish meter padding to maximize your damage to kill a boss quicker and it's not selfish meter padding on progression fights where nobody has been killed for you to KILL THE BOSS FASTER. It's obvious you have never really seen what a progression guild would do to progress. All the heroic bosses and a few normal mode bosses take more than 5 minutes to kill on both 10 and 25 man modes(which 5 minutes is what people want the cooldown reduced to). If you have people too lazy or inattentive to move away from easy mechanics and get themselves killed they probably aren't worth using a battle res on in the first place.

[Jahrastafari]

What about this:

When you use the Doomguard you get a debuff which doesn't disappear only on death, but on death and getting out of combat. Then suicide after 5 minutes + DG won't be an option.

That's a lot of code to put in for something that isn't a problem in the first place.

[mistuhbull]

That's a lot of code to put in for something that isn't a problem in the first place.

Not being competitive every attempt is not a problem?

Damn, I wish my guild would sit their and finger their buttholes for ____ minutes between attempts so I can have my doomguard every attempt.


Oh wait, I don't because that is a massive waste of time

[Kolo]

What about this:

When you use the Doomguard you get a debuff which doesn't disappear only on death, but on death and getting out of combat. Then suicide after 5 minutes + DG won't be an option.

When you die you drop combat.

[Jahrastafari]

I'm pretty sure you are just trolling because I want to believe nobody could think ass backwards like this. When you have a boss on farm it's not selfish meter padding to maximize your damage to kill a boss quicker and it's not selfish meter padding on progression fights where nobody has been killed for you to KILL THE BOSS FASTER. It's obvious you have never really seen what a progression guild would do to progress. All the heroic bosses and a few normal mode bosses take more than 5 minutes to kill on both 10 and 25 man modes(which 5 minutes is what people want the cooldown reduced to). If you have people too lazy or inattentive to move away from easy mechanics and get themselves killed they probably aren't worth using a battle res on in the first place.

Yeah, I realize that he's either clueless or a troll at this point. I got trolled but at least it wasted some time today. I'm all done with the discussion.

[mistuhbull]

I'm pretty sure you are just trolling because I want to believe nobody could think ass backwards like this. When you have a boss on farm it's not selfish meter padding to maximize your damage to kill a boss quicker and it's not selfish meter padding on progression fights where nobody has been killed for you to KILL THE BOSS FASTER. It's obvious you have never really seen what a progression guild would do to progress. All the heroic bosses and a few normal mode bosses take more than 5 minutes to kill on both 10 and 25 man modes(which 5 minutes is what people want the cooldown reduced to). If you have people too lazy or inattentive to move away from easy mechanics and get themselves killed they probably aren't worth using a battle res on in the first place.

Considering the time it takes to chew through 2-5% health is generally less than a minute (5% health on H rag (pre-nerf), given WoL's listed average DPS of 509359 takes 29 seconds), i'm not exactly sure what time you are saving by meter padding on farm bosses

[monkeyelf]

I understand you guys are arguing personal CD v raid CD for heroism having the raidwide debuff, but there's really no problem putting on a 10minute self debuff when using doomguard while the spell itself has a 5min CD. In turn, I think the damage should be nerfed to an extent that people don't with to off themselves and then rez to use the doomguard 5 minutes ahead of time. Remember something else, this all started over the feedback Blizzard wanted for their LONG TERM GOALS. It's highly unlikely any major changes, such as changing the cooldown, will happen in 4.3 because of these feedback forms, unless they were already planned changes for 4.3.

[Garretdejiko]

Give me an exhaustion-style debuff on the Doomguard and I'll suicide,battle-resurrect, and 1.5m damage Doomguard 3 times an encounter. Hello 70k dps for the duration of the fight.

If your group can handle the waste of a brez, then your group is decent enough to live without your dps boosting via doomguard.

[Deleted]

If this debuff was to be implanted and it is used in that way that Jahrastafari describes it would still only be a clever use of mechanics, It seems really wierd that they would though, since we will go sky high on meters. I do believe that guilds uses mechanics like that to progress on bosses; take Cho'gall as an example.
Mages got their meters full to cast instant spells to top meters. After a while they died and they had to combat ress them. But that was the intention of it, they could afford it, this will prob be the case in many top guilds but more rare in guilds which are not that hardcore and can't waste a combat ress just to make someone dominate the Dps.

[mistuhbull]

Not to mention, when you get up to those 25m Heroic modes, the doomguard is doing less and less relative damage in regards to boss health.

On H rag, a 1.5m Doomguard is doing .5%
H Baleroc: .6%
H Beth: 1.5%
H Shannox: 1.3%
H Alysrazor: (i'll even let the Doomguard do 3 million here, even though it won't) 1.2%

So, I really hope that the extra 5 seconds you shave off the kill is worth the Brezzes and your time.

[Deleted]

Not to mention, when you get up to those 25m Heroic modes, the doomguard is doing less and less relative damage in regards to boss health.

On H rag, a 1.5m Doomguard is doing .5%
H Baleroc: .6%
H Beth: 1.5%
H Shannox: 1.3%
H Alysrazor: (i'll even let the Doomguard do 3 million here, even though it won't) 1.2%

So, I really hope that the extra 5 seconds you shave off the kill is worth the Brezzes and your time.

The only thing is, it's a passive ability. What other class has to press one button once to do damage equal to 1% of the boss' health?

Oh and also, dying during a boss fight doesn't remove combat.

[Kisuro]

So, I really hope that the extra 5 seconds you shave off the kill is worth the Brezzes and your time.

A lock can soulstone himself and does not need anyone else to brez him. If this increases dps, it will become part of the rotation. I don't want that, because it's a sucky mechanic.

[mistuhbull]

The only thing is, it's a passive ability. What other class has to press one button once to do damage equal to 1% of the boss' health?

Oh and also, dying during a boss fight doesn't remove combat.

It's a passive ability that TAKES a minute to do that damage.

Over the span of a minute you are shaving off 5 seconds of time, it's not really any sort of tradeoff.

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 12:36 PM ----------

A lock can soulstone himself and does not need anyone else to brez him. If this increases dps, it will become part of the rotation. I don't want that, because it's a sucky mechanic.

Coulda sworn they made Pre-stoning count as a Brez when it is popped, I'm not sure though since we save it for when it's actually needed.

[Xorn]

Here's how we fix the problem: cut the damage down and make it a 2-3 minute cd. Problem. Solved.

[clavarnway]

What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

Raids

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Every since you took out the need for Soul Shard farming and gave us Soul Harvest to top ourselves off, haven't really had any.

What makes playing your class more fun?

I like the pet control needed to excel. I like DoT's. I like nukes. I don't like Going OOM.

What makes playing your class less fun?

Accidently hitting Doomguard before the pull.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

Affliction: It's a little too simple for my tastes. Personally Affliction was at it's high point in BC, when 1.) you didn't have Soul Swap 2.) You had Immolate AND Siphon Life (as a DoT) to manage. Now Affliction is by far the easiest spec, and no Warlock who's played all specs would argue with you.

Demonology: I hated this spec at the launch of the expansion, but now that I've started playing it, I really like it! I actually enjoy the fact that Felguard isn't the de facto best pet for single target. It means that you have to actually think about each boss instead of doing the same thing every time. Pet swapping is a viable dps increase if you can manage it. This means that the spec rewards the better players. Demonology definitely has less spells to manage, but after you factor in timing your cooldowns and pet swapping, there's actually more, which I like.

Destruction: Destruction feels really good. There are different cooldowns to watch, self buffs to watch for, etc. Much better than it used to be.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Biggest things...

Affliction: Remove Soul Swap, make our DoT's hit far harder by themselves. How? Remove Shadow Embrace as a debuff on the target, and instead make it a self buff, like Shadow Priests stacking buff.

The reason: With Shadow Embrace on the target, it means your DoT's hit reasonably hard on target, but piss poor on other targets. Compare to Shadow Priests, whose DoT's hit hard on everything, because all their buffs are on themselves. Removing Soul Swap would justify doing this, since without it, people can't swap DoT's as fast to other targets anyway.

It feels like a cruel joke that 2/2 Mana Feed in the Demonology tree gives 16% mana back when Felhunter's ability crits, but you can't even get those points as Affliction! The tree needs to be reworked to make something like that available. The problem is that every spec takes points in Bane and Shadow and Flame in Destruction. I thought you were trying to get rid of "mandatory points" in favor of "flex points"?

Also, the self healing for Affliction got wrecked when they 1.) made Siphon Life into a part of Corruption and 2.) nerfed Drain Life so it healed based on the HP of the Warlock instead of how much damage.

Demonology: I don't mind that Doomguard does more damage than it's supposed to. Trying to fix that is a can of worms...if you lower it's damage, you have to compensate Demonology in many other ways to make up for it, and that's a lot of work. The only thing I would like to see is a 10 min debuff on the Warlock, similar to the one given with Bloodlust, that goes away when the Warlock dies. VERY OFTEN you will pull a boss, pop all your cooldowns including Doomguard, then you wipe, and your Doomguard isn't available for the next pull. You simply aren't competitive without Doomguard, the spec realistically is balanced around it at this point.

Soul Fire doesn't feel like a very strong execute spell. I imagine you can't really buff it because every spec has access to instant Soul Fire from burning a Soul Shard. Perhaps buffing Demonology's Soul Fire via the Decimation talent?

Destruction: Chaos Bolt hits like a wet noodle. I personally enjoy having to track Improved Soul Fire, but it would be nice if the buff were longer, like 30 seconds. 15 is just annoying. The major thing, though, is AOE. Destruction's AOE is by far the worst of the specs. You just can't take Destruction into a fight that requires high AOE. Shadowburn also isn't a very strong "Execute" type spell at all.

How about this: Every time you get Improved Soul Fire, it stacks up. Once you get 5 stacks, you can pop it for a major DPS buff for a short time. This is similar to a Shadow Priests Archangel ability. It would not only give Destro a big dps cooldown, but let them feel like they are actually contributing to something when they hit that Soul Fire button.

What spells do you use the least?

Shoot (wand)
Curse of Weakness
Enslave Demon
Unending Breath (I do use it though for the 20% swim speed glyphed)(I also like it just as a fun spell)
Searing Pain (I hope you don't remove this though, it lets the specs be a ranged tank if needed)

Last but not least:

Idea! Turn Enslave Demon into something similar to Hunters "Tame Beast". You know those cool Voidwalkers in Hellfire Peninsula? The ones with the armor? Imagine casting Enslave Beast on them, and then the skin on your Voidwalker changes permanently to the armored Voidwalker skin! The same can be done for our other demons - Outlands is chock full of sweet looking Imp, Voidwalker, Felguard, Succubus and Felhunter re-skins.

[Jahrastafari]

Some of the answers in the QA thread really make me weep for the class. It's painful seeing how bad and out of touch some people are. I'd also like to add, as a side note, that our public school teachers have clearly failed the last generation or two, in terms of teaching them how to read and write.

It makes my head hurt to see 2-3 really well thought out posts about the state of class, only to see them surrounded by posts like:

Q: How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

i thank that warlock should have a all of the time meta form and should shoot green fire also be their own mount but also with more kills for pvp

[mistuhbull]

Here's how we fix the problem: cut the damage down and make it a 2-3 minute cd. Problem. Solved.

That would also work, but I believe many Locks like their lol1milliondamage button.

I'd make it 2 minutes, so it aligns with most trinkets.

Lemme think about this, you could just split that 1min every 10 into 5 CDs

2 minutes, so we could have it up for 1/5th the time or 12s. So for me it would do ~172k each time it's up, or 14k DPS. Sounds reasonable

[Logbc]

I put together such a nice post for that thread, then I clicked preview and *poof*

I didn't write it up again