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  1. #1

    [Priest] Blizzard's Class Feedback - Shadow Edition

    Hey all, so I wanted to share what I had to say on class feedback and I was curious about what other shadow priests are saying and what other spriests thought about what I had to say. (It is a bit long, but I tried to break it up subject-by-subject as best I could)

    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Normal/Heroic 10s

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Battlegrounds if I do, but I rarely do.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Quality of Life wise I would have to mention the usage of SWD in FL encounters and the current way in which Shadowy Apparitions behave.

    For Shadow Word: Death, after the 4.2 buff to single-target damage spells, Shadow Word: Death simply backlashes too hard. I have had upwards of 50k backlash without a % damage taken increase (Baelroc) or % damage done increase (Omnitron Defense System), and that's with mostly normal FL gear. Letting us use SWD as a execute spell is a great idea, and I'm all for it, but in most fights sub-25% is when there is either a large amount of raid-damage taken or a large amount of raid healing required, where using SWD no longer becomes a execute on the target and becomes an execute on the player. The backlash was fine when it did not hit for so much, but now that it will crit for upwards of 75k with Int procs and other +damage buffs, it hits the player for too hard.

    The major issue I have with SWD is that the amount which it'll hit the player is too variable to be accounted for, as it's dependent on +int procs, archangel, and a myriad of other things. There either needs to be a way for the damage to be more constant or expected, or for the damge of the backlash to be less than it is right now. (Perhaps limiting the backlash to the backlash of it's non-crit damage, if SWD does crit.)


    For Shadowy Apparitions, the limit of 4 up at a time is perfectly acceptable (Though it was fun running around trash mobs and just SWP'ing everything late in ICC), however in the event that they cannot path to the target, the amount of time that they are alive just standing there is borderline obnoxious. They'll stand there for 15-25 seconds before despawning during which time you cannot spawn any more apparitions, fairly drastically reducing the amount of damage they can do for no reason other than being useless. Giving them a despawn timer of a few seconds in the event that they are standing still would help remedy this problem greatly. (It's not a major thing, which is why I have it under a QoL issue)


    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Life Grip is an amazing spell, but I feel that it should be moved into the discipline category, rather than holy, as it takes you out of shadow-form even when you cannot successfully life-grip the target. (I.E. They're just out of range)

    Shadow Orbs and the Empowered Shadows mechanic is great in concept, and the ability to extend +mastery procs through creative use of Orbs+Mind Blast is awesome, but it does fall short on some aspects. (Just don't change how it works primarily! It's one of the reasons I went back to playing my priest from my rogue)

    Dispersion is also, once I got used to it's applications, an amazing 31 pt talent, please don't change it.


    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Being completely ineffectual at healing when I do decide to drop out of shadowform. I understand and completely agree with not being able to heal as well as a healer can, but going OOM in less than 20-30 seconds and doing very bad healing while doing it deters me completely from doing it. (Ever) If I do have to help heal, it's often in a capacity where we'll most likely wipe anyway, as a healer dying in a fight early on pretty much (in 10man anyway) guarantees a wipe due to lack of mana. A nice change to shadow-form would be to make it 100% of the time while spec'd shadow and have it reduce healing done by 10-x%. That way you wouldn't have to take time to get back into shadowform after dropping out to heal or life grip or whatever, but your healing wouldn't be too Overpowered.


    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    I feel like the rotation is fine the way it is. There's only some smallish issues with what I've mentioned before and am about to mention.

    Mind Spike is perfectly fine and fits the niche it was designed for, though I feel like it should not use Shadow Orbs when used, and should have it's damage be proportional to the damage done by Mind Blast. (So that it does a third of Mind Blast damage or something similar, so that as gear increases, Mind Spike scales similarly. As it is, I've noticed that it seems to be falling behind in damage. (Mostly a scaling issue)


    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    A slight change to how mastery works to make it more attractive for shadow and to reduce the inherent RNG with shadow orb generation, without eliminating it completely.

    What I'd like to see is to have mastery, in addition to it's current effects, also increase the % proc chance of generating an orb off of ticks of SWP and MF. Something around .25-.5% per mastery point (not rating) while reducing the base chance a little would probably be balanced without being over-generous. Something around a 15% base chance (10 Mastery) increasing to 15.5 with 11, 16 with 12, 17 with 13 mastery, 18 with 14, 19 with 15, 20% with 16 etc. It would allow us to make an intelligent choice between haste and mastery (as both would, at different rates, increase our chances to proc shadow orbs over time. Mastery by changing the proc-chance and haste by decreasing the time between potential orb generations) Obviously the numbers would have to be adjusted to make them balanced so that mastery isn't way above or way below haste, but you get the idea I hope :P


    What spells do you use the least?

    Mind Vision and Mind Sooth. I like the current implementation of Mind Vision as it has it's uses and isn't completely useless. I just don't use it much.

    For Mind Sooth it would be nice to have it changed into a form of CC for shadow beyond shackle and mind control (as both are very niche CCs). Perhaps being able to use Mind Sooth to prevent it's target from pulling with the rest of the group (but still patting as if it was unaffected), and change it to one-target at a time for a longer duation. It would be a new type of CC that has it's disadvantages (for example, not being useful in PvP, or still being able to pull the mob, but just have it temporarily unlinked from it's group).

    The other use for mind sooth that I can think of, is to have it be a threat reducing cooldown that temporarily reduces the threat generated on the affected target by the priest. It would be a new type of threat-reducing spell, and it fits the name and idea behind the spell, it just gives it a use during combat. (Giving it a CD to not make it a part of the rotation would probably be necessary.


    Anyway, those are my ideas, I'm looking forward to feedback from other spriests and what they have to say on the subject

  2. #2
    what makes spriests fun to play: DoTs and Vamp Emb (heals even in shadow form, sure nerfed, but still nice thing)
    what makes spriests not fun to play: Shadow Orbs, stupid mastery, no uniqueness left (mana battery in TBC, loved it so much)
    what i want from spriests: talent, something like Single-minded Fury/Titan's Grip, that buffs either Mind Flay or Mind Spike, that way players can decide which filler spell to use

  3. #3
    Brusalk, I agree with your take on most of the things you listed. By far the thing I dislike the most is the current state of our execute. Add in to the things you listed the fact that the way they designed nearly every fight in FL as having the most raid damage (and being unavoidable) makes using it as a real execute very touch and go.

    I only slightly disagree with you on the healing part. I mean sure if we have to drop out and straight up heal we'll go oom in no time. But... I would worry any buff to our healing abilities would have to come at the price of reducing our damage output, and I really wouldn't want that. Plus I'd be afraid my raid group would actually start to expect me to cast those weird gold spells

  4. #4
    We need a bit higher single target damage, at the expense, for example, of mind sear damage.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Qynix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    We need a bit higher single target damage, at the expense, for example, of mind sear damage.
    single target damage of mind sear, SENSE YOU MAKE.
    asuming you mean mind flay, i dont see what is wrong with our single target damage, i am pretty competitive on single target fights.

    i wouldnt mind to see a movement speed increase.
    Last edited by Qynix; 2011-09-12 at 10:51 PM.

  6. #6

    mind flay vs drain life

    the other day me and a friend were testing out mind flay to drain life. drain life hit so much harder then mind flay did. I think its cool how their drain life gets a buff from their dots. so would some kind of buff to mind flay be too much to ask for? idk. our arch angle is a cool system but sometimes i do find it annoying to pull off when i need in arena. It takes alot more skill then a straight click to active buff spell.

    idk that's just me, what do you guys think about it?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Qynix View Post
    single target damage of mind sear, SENSE YOU MAKE.
    asuming you mean mind flay, i dont see what is wrong with our single target damage, i am pretty competitive on single target fights.

    i wouldnt mind to see a movement speed increase.
    He is saying that he wouldn't mind trading a aoe damage (MS) nerf for a single target damage (MB for example) buff.

  8. #8
    lol, wasn't that hard to understand.

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Come on guys, first page and you're already slipping. Step up or step out.
    I heal in the Arena
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  10. #10
    My main issue is the orbs really. Getting that ONE orb in the beginning of the fight, or when we are not getting any midfight. Empowered shadows runs out and I sit there and think; I will get an orb during next mind flay so I hold my mind blast just a little.... Ok, next mind flay.... ok, NEXT MIND FLAY I WILL GET THAT ORB.

    I just want something that can guarentee 1 orb when I dont have any. Maybe sw:d could gurentee 1 orb if you have none.

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    I thought it was a DPS loss to try to save Mind Blast?
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  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Backreaper's Avatar
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    What i'd love to see would be a shadow nova, deals aoe damage about 40% of what mind sear would do and also heals all target in a 30yd radius for the same amount as holy nova, maybe 80% of holy nova, not a competetive aoe or heal spell, but a kind of "helping your healers out" while not raping your dps and mana.

    I also want to trade SW: Death for a 3 minute cooldown orb to make sure i always have 1 should my RNG fuck up

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Shadow Nova, one year from now, would appear in the "Spells you use the least" category.
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  14. #14
    Make ES buff passive for shadow or when we are on shadowform and each point of mastery increase for x the damage over time and let shadow orbs to increase the damage from MB but not affecting from ES equal with aflictions but stil we gonna have the agony of how much hard our MB will hit...
    And like brusalk said shadowy appartitions is fine about the numbers they will spawn but it is a very bad joke about the damage that they deal and especialy in fights with movement appartitions can be very useful.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    We need a bit higher single target damage, at the expense, for example, of mind sear damage.
    Firstly, Qynix, you really should learn to read before you try to bash other people.

    I think our single target damage is fine. In terms of buffing/nerfing parts our existing abilities, I don't think we need any changes. However, I do think we need a temporary speed increase ability. Something around 50% speed for roughly 4 seconds would be fine, just something to help with getting melees off of us in PvP. Could easily be worked into the Phantasm talent and become part of Fade to be honest.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    I thought it was a DPS loss to try to save Mind Blast?
    It is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erto View Post
    I think our single target damage is fine. In terms of buffing/nerfing parts our existing abilities, I don't think we need any changes. However, I do think we need a temporary speed increase ability. Something around 50% speed for roughly 4 seconds would be fine, just something to help with getting melees off of us in PvP. Could easily be worked into the Phantasm talent and become part of Fade to be honest.
    A speed burst would really helpful in pvp... but the goblins would probably be upset because it would make their rocket jump less of a big deal if every priest could do it. I think the healing from our VE could stand to be bumped up a little though.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    To be honest i do not agree on SW: D it's never intended to be rotation spell and i'm really enjoying the fact that i have to risk sometimes while using it.
    It's an awareness check and it will rarely kill you if you are timing it right.

    The only thing i would considering changing is the orb spawn although i hardly find myself have a problem with it.

    It's more about adding exciting things than we need something as a spec.
    Multi-target DPS is awesome, AoE DPS is awesome, single target DPS is where it should be i think we're as balanced as it gets PvE wise, i have no clue about PvP not even BG so i can't really comment our PvP side.

    Something i would surely change is the amount of effect that racials skills have on certain classes/specs but that's something not-related with the current topic.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2011-09-13 at 11:07 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    I thought it was a DPS loss to try to save Mind Blast?
    I know it is.
    Having this internal conversation with myself every time empowered shadows runs out, dots about to tick out with no orb and asking myself if I should use Mind blast to get the cd on it but then delay empowered shadows even futher. Or hoping it will come on the next mind flay/sw: p tick so the delay will be very minor while I am cursing at myself that I didnt refresh my dots before it ran out

  19. #19
    Juubo, you could always when ES is running low and MB is coming back up quickly recast VT/DP before ES runs out. It minimizes the downside of losing ES. Also, I have quite often in these situations found the I proc an orb during the MB cast, which is a happy day

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 10:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    To be honest i do not agree on SW: D it's never intended to be rotation spell and i'm really enjoying the fact that i have to risk sometimes while using it.
    I thought the whole point of them buffing sw: d under 25% was because they do want us to use it as an execute. Maybe not part of the standard rotation, but they definitely intended us to use it at the end of the fights, even gave us a glyph so we could double tap. My main issue is that it feels like with their right hand they gave us this cool and fun mechanic, and with the left hand they back handed us and said "ha with these mechanics we have set-up you either die or don't use that spell haha"... Having to plan the use of it is one thing... but sometimes it's just not even feasible (like ob bal if you take the shards)... It probably doesn't need a lot of tinkering, but a little would be good.

  20. #20
    I totally agree with the OP on this statement.

    Quality of Life wise I would have to mention the usage of SWD in FL encounters and the current way in which Shadowy Apparitions behave.

    For Shadow Word: Death, after the 4.2 buff to single-target damage spells, Shadow Word: Death simply backlashes too hard. I have had upwards of 50k backlash without a % damage taken increase (Baelroc) or % damage done increase (Omnitron Defense System), and that's with mostly normal FL gear. Letting us use SWD as a execute spell is a great idea, and I'm all for it, but in most fights sub-25% is when there is either a large amount of raid-damage taken or a large amount of raid healing required, where using SWD no longer becomes a execute on the target and becomes an execute on the player. The backlash was fine when it did not hit for so much, but now that it will crit for upwards of 75k with Int procs and other +damage buffs, it hits the player for too hard.

    The major issue I have with SWD is that the amount which it'll hit the player is too variable to be accounted for, as it's dependent on +int procs, archangel, and a myriad of other things. There either needs to be a way for the damage to be more constant or expected, or for the damge of the backlash to be less than it is right now. (Perhaps limiting the backlash to the backlash of it's non-crit damage, if SWD does crit.)


    For Shadowy Apparitions, the limit of 4 up at a time is perfectly acceptable (Though it was fun running around trash mobs and just SWP'ing everything late in ICC), however in the event that they cannot path to the target, the amount of time that they are alive just standing there is borderline obnoxious. They'll stand there for 15-25 seconds before despawning during which time you cannot spawn any more apparitions, fairly drastically reducing the amount of damage they can do for no reason other than being useless. Giving them a despawn timer of a few seconds in the event that they are standing still would help remedy this problem greatly. (It's not a major thing, which is why I have it under a QoL issue)
    and I really like the idea of mind soothe that was posted by the OP as well. Although I think there is one spell that blizzard should really consider either scrapping or reworking is Mana Burn (I don't pvp much to know if it is actually worth it's weight in pvp).
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