Paladin Class Feedback - Ret and Consecration

[swiftowner]

Conscecration as a holy power AoE finisher. Make it more powerful and work like Flamestrike.

Both Prot and Ret would benefit greatly.

I like this idea, for holy it could be an aoe heal zone instead?

[zcks]

I like this idea, for holy it could be an aoe heal zone instead?

That Idea has been around since late vanilla as have tons of other good ideas.


Sadly blizzard rarely listens to the players of the paladin class, the few examples of when they have were

1: In vanilla-TBC when paladins threatened to mass quit
2: Created death knights using many ideas players posted on how to fix ret.
3: Created holy power, sadly they did so in a halfassed & rushed manner without proper testing, fine tuning or proper integration of the resource.

In the end we can post all we want, fill forums with threads that are hundreds of pages long & endorsed by the best players in the world & even admitted to be good ideas by the games designers but the management team will likely not allow said ideas to be implemented.

As Zealous said a while back unless someone buys up major stock in the company & tells the management team that they have to put honest effort into all 3 paladin specs like they have with warriors, mages, rogues & priests over the years or face getting fired they simply will not do it because at the end of the day the management team at best either does not care as long as the spec can do the bare minimum required in pve or simply has biases against the spec (as is seen in comments made by Kalgan, furor & a few other high ranking blizzard management team members both outside official capacity & in official posts).


That's not to say we shouldn't try, we really should because maybe one day they will change & decide to put honest hard effort into all 3 of the classes specs. That day is very unlikely to happen however unless something forces them to change as it did in #1 above.

[Eurytos]

Mana cost and dmg of consecrate is not the issue i have with it, its the fact that its an aoe ability that must be used in a single target rotation. This is my problem with Holy Wrath too. There are a number of issues I have with having aoe in my single target rotation, one of which is CC, another of which is control over which NPC I want to dmg.

In my feedback I made a point to mention that if they want us to use a different seal,and a different melee attack, then they should just simply make us have two different rotations. DS with Seal of Righteousness, Consecrate, and Holy Wrath, with a Holy Power aoe finisher would be the aoe rotation. For single target we would use CS with SoT, Exo, TV and Judgement and possible a new single target ability. Make the abilities completely separate, or make a way for them to be used in either fashion. What I mean by that is to have a way for HW to not hit nearby targets and only its full dmg on one, or a Consecrate dot that we toggle to. Surely they can make any of the possibilities happen.

Buffing dmg and reduced mana cost can come later.

[Deleted]

Conscecration as a holy power AoE finisher. Make it more powerful and work like Flamestrike.

Both Prot and Ret would benefit greatly.

i like it

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 09:20 PM ----------

ill add: put divine storm in place of crusader strike with holy wrath treatment. and make holy wrath aoe holy power generator

[Jonuts]

It's actually part of playing ret right, it still keeps a mana management component. Basically if you spam consecs on CD without timing you lose mana and DPS.

If it was part of playing Ret right, it would make a difference if I didn't use it. 1 more DP proc, or hell, a few extra crits on normal hits, and I deal more damage than 10 consecrates would. Look at the pathetic damage. it ticks for what, 700? 800? My tool tip right now says "5380 holy damage". So, assuming whatever I use it on doesn't move out of it, thats 5380 holy Damage. Every 30 seconds, if used on cooldown. Alright, without inquisition, that's 179.33 DPS, if used on cooldown. Pro-tip: You can't use it on cooldown, generally speaking, without sacrificing DPS by pushing back something better, so the best case scenario is out the window. WITH inquisition, I do 7k (Self buffed with only might)

It's damage is plain pathetic. You incur a massive cost for the shittiest ability. Got 10 adds? If you lose so much as 1 DS due to mana before they all die, it's an out and out DPS loss. I'm sorry, it's not part of "playing Ret right", it's a waste.

It's a gain, albeit a very, very small one, to use it in single target.

*ONLY* if it's use delays the use of no other abilities, be it by GCD or mana loss.

[Judge Malthred]

I would like a buff to my holy damage while standing on consecrated ground. Just seems to make sense. Or perhaps if our Mastery increased all holy dmg dealt instead of only increasing holy dmg on a few abilities...

[zcks]

I would like a buff to my holy damage while standing on consecrated ground. Just seems to make sense. Or perhaps if our Mastery increased all holy dmg dealt instead of only increasing holy dmg on a few abilities...

Think you mean you wished it caused all attacks to do an additional set % damage as holy. If it only boosted holy damage done then it would have no effect on CS, DS or TV.


Personally I would like it to have a bonus effect for each spec & for the talent hallowed ground to be in the first tier of protection so that all specs could easily access it.

For holy it could be a weak aoe heal, that also boost the healing received from holy radiance for those that stand within its effect.

For prot it could increase healing received by a small amount (say 5%) while active, or perhaps reduce magic damage taken while active by a small amount.

for ret it would have increased damage scaling from AP & possibly reduce the run speed of enemies within its radius or silence them like solar beam does, or provide a magic damage done debuff to enemies within its effect (say 25% like the old improved overpower effect for arms used to do)

[7Dwerm]

I would like a buff to my holy damage while standing on consecrated ground. Just seems to make sense. Or perhaps if our Mastery increased all holy dmg dealt instead of only increasing holy dmg on a few abilities...

^^^ This is golden imo ^^^

Bring it on.

[Adhal-Blackrock]

I would like a buff to my holy damage while standing on consecrated ground. Just seems to make sense. Or perhaps if our Mastery increased all holy dmg dealt instead of only increasing holy dmg on a few abilities...

Umm... the second part, about Increased all holy damage... How long have you even played ret??? You do realize thats what mastery was at the start of Cata right? When it was worthless???

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/21654/rets-mastery

[zcks]

Umm... the second part, about Increased all holy damage... How long have you even played ret??? You do realize thats what mastery was at the start of Cata right? When it was worthless???

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/21654/rets-mastery

Pretty sure he meant that he wishes the mastery caused all attacks to do an additional % of damage as holy, not just CS, DS & TV.

[Talen]

Pretty sure he meant that he wishes the mastery caused all attacks to do an additional % of damage as holy, not just CS, DS & TV.

I still think they should have just made Righteous Vengeance the Mastery.

EJL

[zcks]

Well I suppose that could work, however there is the problem that we no longer get critical strikes on a reliable bases.

[Millywilly]

As cool as it sounds to have consecration buff our damage when we're in it, it just won't work because there are plenty of mechanics that force us to move. I'd rather not have my dps potential balanced around a mechanic that is rendered worthless the moment the tank starts kiting the boss or some other raid mechanic forces me out of my buffed dps zone.

Also lol at the comment about consecration being a means to differentiate good rets from bad rets, since the wording indicates that good rets use it in their single target rotation. It's dead last in the priority list for ST because of the lackluster damage which redcape calculated to be something like .5% of you dps if you used it optimally (as in you're not pushing back higher priority abilities). Mind you .5% is easily lost in the rng static and this calculation was done before the spec's over dependance on procs became even worse. [Fun fact, he calculated HW to be about 2% of our damage in an ST rotation].

For a mutli-target situation, it does pull ahead of HW at 3 targets if you have inquisition up. Given the mana cost of the ability, it's rarely worth using on trash in both raids or heroics. I've only found it useful on fights where there are lots of adds that need to die (like Halfus).

The only reason I can figure for why the ability has such a ludicrous mana cost in addition to a 30s CD is because Blizz had the hair brained idea of balancing ret dps around us using it to fill in rotation gabs and that somehow having more haste would let JotB tick enough to make it feasible. That moronic idea has been detrimental to both ret and prot. It either needs to be a AoE finisher ability or ret needs to use AoW procs to get it to be instant cast ability that we use in AoE situations over Exorcism. In some ways the AoE finisher route would work rather well since it's far easier to make it a slight dps gain in a 3+ target environment over TV than doing so with holy wrath because the last thing ret needs is a version 4.0 divine storm version 2.0 (the AoE you're balanced around but never really get to use because everything dies by the time you're able to cast it).

[Jonuts]

Power it up a great deal, and I can see it as our AoE finisher.

ST rotation of CSx3-->TV
AoE rotation of DSx3 -->Cons.

Only issue is, being an AoE over time, it might be a crappy finisher in most situations, since adds will likely die before consecrate get more than a tick or 2 off. So maybe that really is a bad idea after all. If we're sticking with holy power though, it'd be nice to get DSx3 --> AoE finsher.

[Gallahadd]

mm I think the two pally moves most in need of changing are Conc and Holy Wrath. I don't think much needs to be done to Conc to make it decent, just increase the damage to an amount that is actually WORTH the mana cost of the cast.

as for Holy Wrath, I'd say bake it into Inquisition, make it increase duration and damage done per point of Holy Power spent, and for GOD sakes make it scale with attack power, on our last Domo kill Holy Wrath did less damage than my T12 2pc bonus

[announced]

consecration is worthless. the only possible time to use it when adds will appear at a certain part of the encounter and u need to pick them up immediatly.. even then u can use holy wrath for that as well.

make it stronger like doing 40,000 dmg over 10 seconds when talented.. then it'll actually be doing something (although 4k dmg per second might be a bit overkill).

[Jonuts]

It's damage would be fine if it was spammable like it was in wrath. It seems balanced around having an extremely high uptime, but it's real uptime is almost non-existent due to the large cooldown and the massive mana cost.

[Deleted]

I like it but I don't use it.Too much mana and not too good dps.Ofc I pop it as soon as possible with my tank specc.

[Talen]

It's damage would be fine if it was spammable like it was in wrath. It seems balanced around having an extremely high uptime, but it's real uptime is almost non-existent due to the large cooldown and the massive mana cost.

Towars the end of LK, I postulated Blizzard would either add a 30s CD to the spell or triple the mana cost to ensure it wasn't quite as spammable;

They did both.

Blizzard have a tendency to over correct. One could argue that yes, Consecration shouldn't be a part of the single target rotation and thus it needed to be changed to make it not worth using. But the changes for Cat really neutered the spell into near uselesssness....especially since one of the arguments raised for the change was the effect on threat

Personally - I'd remove the CD, and make it ranged as with Raging Consecration; then I'd up the mana cost but add a mana return feature that restores X mana per target affected - possibly with a cap to avoid abuse and drive home the "mana return improves efficiency".

However, I don't believe Consecration...even with minor changes...is a worthy target for a role as a standard AoE finsiher. Its a melee range AoE DoT with a static area of effect. DS is a far better finisher.

EJL

[Jonuts]

However, I don't believe Consecration...even with minor changes...is a worthy target for a role as a standard AoE finsiher. Its a melee range AoE DoT with a static area of effect. DS is a far better finisher.

You're right that even thinking of consecration as an AoE finisher was a dumb idea on my part. But making DS our AoE finisher would be a poor idea as well. Our AoE damage is basically slap on SoR and DS our hearts out. If we have to build up 3 holy power to unleash a DS, then whats the point? Most fights where using AoE is advisable, we wouldn't ever get around to it because everything would die before we can AoE.