destro on beth 25 hm

[Darthhobbit]

Hey all, I just joined a new guild that is further progressed than I am and in hopes of not looking like a total noob I was hoping to gain some insight on how my fellow locks are taking down Beth.

My raid leader asked me to go destro, my questions are...
1. Is it better to apply boh on the pull or go up stairs and apply coe and boh? I am assuming no dk or boomkin going up.
2. Is it better to immolate and corruption all the spinners or single Target them down?

thanks in advance,
Darth

[Defai]

Is your raid leader serious? He should know destro is one of the most inefficient dps specs atm, you could do much better and be of more use as aff, in theory. I guess BOH might put some dps on beth, but compared to what you are giving up it shouldnt even be worth it in my opinion. But if hes really intent on making you go into the worst of the specs: If you are going up, may as well drop a BOD or something seeing as youll go up shortly after she does. Multidotting spinners is far more useful, well in terms of dps as aff, destro should be similiar seeings as immolate is quite powerful. Single targetting would mostly be for that one spinner thats still in the air and not dead as well as the drone. But im not destro, so dont take my suggestions to be the all knowing and absolute.

[dalliah1]

Actually, ^. As inefficient as destro dps is, it's actually very good for beth'ilac IF you can manage to put BoH on her before she goes up, on our first kill I did about 1 million damage to her with BoH and I was second on damage/dps. The burst is extremely nice for spinners and if our soakers need help with spinners, I can instantly stun them with shadowfury. What I do when spinners come down is I immolate one, target another and immolate it as well and go back to the first one that I immolated and conflag and then start a normal rotation, reason I do this is that sometimes it takes a second or two for conflag to light up :S

Oh and nether ward and nether protection pretty much amazing for survival on that fight

[Deleted]

I have to agree with dalliah1, I have tried the 3 speccs. Affliction is only good if you go up, but it isn't that good because you lose SE stacks, etc, etc. Demo is horrible because you buff a whole tree based on your pet but the pet just be running like a headless chicken since the spinners die fast (unless you are AoE'ing the small spiders duty). Destro is all what dalliah1 said + imp is a ranged pet which is perfect to this fight.

[clavarnway]

I have to agree with dalliah1, I have tried the 3 speccs. Affliction is only good if you go up, but it isn't that good because you lose SE stacks, etc, etc. Demo is horrible because you buff a whole tree based on your pet but the pet just be running like a headless chicken since the spinners die fast (unless you are AoE'ing the small spiders duty). Destro is all what dalliah1 said + imp is a ranged pet which is perfect to this fight.

I have found Demo to be perfectly awesome for this fight. You have Drones to use your pet and Meta's/cooldowns on, and you save your Doomguard for p2. I did 3-4k better as Demo than as Destro, and that includes BoH'ing her on the pull as Destro.

Looking at rankings on WoL it seems to agree with me - on average Demo outperforms Destro by 3-4k on Beth HM 25.

I don't credit Bane of Havoc as a reason to be Destro, because Demonology overall does more damage to Beth with it's cooldowns than Destro does with it's Bane. So that doesn't factor in. The only reason to be Destro for Beth is Shadowfury, so if your adds are controllable without it, by all means go Demo for more DPS.

edit: Here are some logs.

First kill (Destro): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8638&e=9093

Third kill (Demo): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10710&e=11159

I just got better on that fight as I learned the best times to pop Meta etc. I really think Demo is the way to go for it.

---BUT---

Being in a new guild you are 99% gonna be Destro for now since that's what the RL wants.

So...

1.) I wouldn't bother going up. You steal somebody else's web and you're only buffing your Havoc damage.

2.) I tab DoT them then focus on the Drone, while throwing out Shadowflame on CD to hit as many as possible. Once they are on the ground the Drone is the priority, not the spinners. They don't hit very hard and they are not threatening. Get the Drone down ASAP and let the Spinners die to incidental AOE.

I have to agree with dalliah1, I have tried the 3 speccs. Affliction is only good if you go up, but it isn't that good because you lose SE stacks, etc, etc. Demo is horrible because you buff a whole tree based on your pet but the pet just be running like a headless chicken since the spinners die fast (unless you are AoE'ing the small spiders duty). Destro is all what dalliah1 said + imp is a ranged pet which is perfect to this fight.

Here is my most recent log from Beth - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2117&e=2555

Not bad for a "horrible" spec ;p

[dalliah1]

I think that alot of people forget that when you're doing progression, it's not about personal dps anymore as much as it is about staying alive and doing what will benefit the raid the most. In your destruction log ^ you actually have a bit more damage done to beth than your Demo logs, although it's not much, every little bit counts and as I pointed out, nether ward is amazing for phase 2

Now that we killed it, i'm taking the luxury of going demo too

[Morath]

Destro is good build for that fight, you have burst for adds, BoH on boss and Nether Protection for second phase.

[clavarnway]

I think that alot of people forget that when you're doing progression, it's not about personal dps anymore as much as it is about staying alive and doing what will benefit the raid the most. In your destruction log ^ you actually have a bit more damage done to beth than your Demo logs, although it's not much, every little bit counts and as I pointed out, nether ward is amazing for phase 2

Now that we killed it, i'm taking the luxury of going demo too

You also have to remember that if I'm doing a little less dmg to Beth, but a lot more DPS, that means I'm doing a lot more dmg to other things (most likely drone, can't check WoL atm). Very important also, and also, were you only looking at my dmg? Don't forget about Doomguard, see how much he did to Beth.

[nerdzrool]

Demo is best for spiderlings, destro is best for spinners, aff is best for top.

EDIT: This is for normal, I'm unsure for HM cause I haven't done it, although I assume it would be similar.

[Inactivity]

I really like using affliction for Beth HM since it does a number on the spinners and excellent dps on beth'tilac phase 2.

Destro can be alright as you can BoH beth and do alright spamming immo + conflag + corruption on spiders (rain of fire is junk) while helping with Shadowfury. Nether protection isn't that good since you won't really be getting single target heals usually AoE heals unless you are a soaker (in which case you are not doing much dps anyway).

The best spec is probably Demo with the aoe on spinners and strong single target dps.

[Deleted]

Not bad for a "horrible" spec ;p

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I think that demo isn't a good specc if you be only down killing spinners and drones. If you go up it is good, if you AoE the small adds it is good. When do you time your meta?
In my guild the spinners die before my dots tick, we got a massive AoE power; 4 hunters, 3 mages, 2 moonkins. I agree that I can leave my pet on the drones but those also go down fast. We got DK's doing the small adds.
I also have to go affliction for the CoE Jinx...

[Darthhobbit]

Thanks for all your help, I went in last night confident. I would boh on the pull, and try to immolate and corruption all the adds. The highest I was able to get my boh damage was just over half a mil. I think I can improve upon that next time. After looking at the top world of logs rankings being around 890k with I assume much better gear. I think 1 mil is unreachable atm but I'm going to strive for it if im still destro. The biggest thing I need to improve on is my Target selection I tried tab targeting but it was not very good on my best attempt I had made mouseover immolate and corruption macros. this went much better but this fight moves soo fast i think I wasted a bunch of gcds.

[dalliah1]

Thanks for all your help, I went in last night confident. I would boh on the pull, and try to immolate and corruption all the adds. The highest I was able to get my boh damage was just over half a mil. I think I can improve upon that next time. After looking at the top world of logs rankings being around 890k with I assume much better gear. I think 1 mil is unreachable atm but I'm going to strive for it if im still destro. The biggest thing I need to improve on is my Target selection I tried tab targeting but it was not very good on my best attempt I had made mouseover immolate and corruption macros. this went much better but this fight moves soo fast i think I wasted a bunch of gcds.

I would lose the corruption to be honest, the damage that it pulls as destro is pretty ehh and not to mention at the speed that things die on that fight, it's not all that great

[Nicola]

To quickly awnser your questions.
1) Use bane of havoc, most casters have a rampup time, it's better to let melee go up.
2) Destro is pretty horrible in multidotting, it's better to singletarget everything down.

Also, if you are mainly on drones I suggest you to go demonology since it will grant you a lot more dps then destro and you have a strong aoe in case some spiderlings need to get killed quickly.

[glinkle]

we recently ranked 3rd and 11th as destro on heroic 25 man beth

at the start, make sure to put boh on beth. instant cast a soulfire on a spinner and then target switch putting immolate on all spinners, conflag as needed /
dot up the drone and continue cycling immolate on the spinners. once the spinners are down perform your rotation on drones/ if you have a drone still up when beth drops, place boh on the drone and dps beth

[clavarnway]

To quickly awnser your questions.

2) Destro is pretty horrible in multidotting, it's better to singletarget everything down.

Destro's Immolate hits really hard, tab dotting Immolate is great as Destro...Rain of Fire however...

---------- Post added 2011-09-15 at 02:39 PM ----------

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I think that demo isn't a good specc if you be only down killing spinners and drones. If you go up it is good, if you AoE the small adds it is good. When do you time your meta?
In my guild the spinners die before my dots tick, we got a massive AoE power; 4 hunters, 3 mages, 2 moonkins. I agree that I can leave my pet on the drones but those also go down fast. We got DK's doing the small adds.
I also have to go affliction for the CoE Jinx...

I time the first meta when the first drone is in place, so I can stand still and nuke it. The 2nd meta is when Moonwell Chalice comes off CD, and this usually times with another drone coming in, and a bunch of spinners landing, so I can AOE the spinners while killing the drone (Immolation Aura/Shadowflame). The 3rd Meta I time during p2 on Beth'tilac. The 4th you only get if you're lucky with procs, and you'll pop it by itself, without Chalice (this will be at the very end of the fight, when she's like 5-10% left).