Reading other Rogue's feedback

[The Chad]

Glad that Blizzard has decided to have an open thread dedicated completely to player feedback, I decided to read some of what was posted by other Rogues (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123319296 the link if you somehow have not seen it yet, or want to review some posts made).

It left me confused for the most part.

There are people saying they like the "face paced" and "frenetic" playstyle of Rogues. I find these type of comments to come from nearly anyone, regardless of how much they PvE or PvP and their progression in the two. You only need to look at the 1st reply to see a fairly well accomplished PvE Assassination Rogue (who recently downed Heroic Fandral) comment on the fast pace of the Rogue's rotation. This player has 12k achievement points on his Rogue. This leads me to believe he only has his Rogue and other casters at max level.

Later on in the thread someone else mentions how dual wielding Death Knights have a more quicker rotation and play more like a Rogue should. There seems to be a disagreement between Rogues about how our rotation feels. I can't help but feel those who say our rotation is fast are either thinking about it when there is mass energy regeneration (When Overkill or Adrenaline rush are up) or just haven't played a dps Warrior at max level.

Maybe it was because I was expecting a slow and steady rotation when I first tried it (fiancé's arms warrior) and was caught off guard, but it was a lot more fast paced as well as requiring actual resource management needing thought. I firmly believe that Rogues play like a "melee caster" of sorts, meaning using abilities more sparringly and imitating the cast bar.

Does this strike anyone else as odd? Shouldn't the Rogue, the class that wields fast weapons, have the faster rotation and the class with the massive two-hander have a slower rotation?

[RogueDurr]

Well rogues are extremely fast paced outside of assassination. Combat is one of the highest APM classes, especially at high levels. I mean your practically using every possible GCD, its hard to get too much faster. Sub even falls into this category too with HaT etc. Assassination I would think is one of the slower APM specs. Its not as brutally slow as it was last tier cause of the amount of haste this tier, buts it still is kind of slow.

[Zxian]

What RogueDurr said is correct. One of the things I enjoy about Assassination's playstyle is that I can actually get away with looking around my character to make sure I'm not standing in fire and not take a significant DPS loss. Missing a GCD as Combat is very very bad, and the only 'downtime' you have as Sub is when you're waiting for your 4th or 5th combo point to arrive. One of the other things that makes Rogues fairly unique is that we always have a 1 second GCD. Death Knights who play in Unholy Presence and Kitty Druids are the only other players who may be required to press buttons within 1 second of the last action.

[Deleted]

I personally find the assassination spec a tad "slow" indeed, but I'm happy spamming Sinister Strike in combat, and as combat, I dont feel like a slow melee caster, as the others corrrectly stating, you are very much using every GCD.

[Lunavi]

I've always been Combat (didn't play my rogue during Wrath though) and I've always loved the pacing of Combat. I remember popping the 2 key off two laptop keyboards in Vanilla, and have probably given myself carpal tunnel as well. I tried fury in Wrath and hated it, and I've done some kitty dps on my Druid tank, and I just prefer combat rogue. I've tried Mut as well. Its boring and feels weird. If they ever nerf combat to a non raid viable status, I'd rather play sub or my healer/tank/caster before assassination.

[Bitlovin]

You only need to look at the 1st reply to see a fairly well accomplished PvE Assassination Rogue (who recently downed Heroic Fandral) comment on the fast pace of the Rogue's rotation. This player has 12k achievement points on his Rogue. This leads me to believe he only has his Rogue and other casters at max level

Hi. That was me.

I did mention that Rogue feels a bit energy starved at the moment (at least Muti does, to me), and could benefit from a bit faster rotation. Because you are right, Rogue should be the fast, spammy class.

[Speaker]

Combat is much more fast paced, but also a lot easier, most of it is just hitting sinister strike. The fast-paced part is trying to not let your energy cap while also not going past 5 combo points. Assassination is a lot more timing of abilities and cooldowns. Perfecting either spec is pretty difficult, but consistently maintaining perfect timing makes assassination the more difficult spec imo.

Unfortunately combat has been ahead of assassination this tier by a pretty wide margin. Hopefully they bring both specs back in line with each other again and also bring us up to the level of other dps classes at the same time.

[xenaros]

I agree with you, it does feel like we queue abilities like casters queue spells. I also play an arms warrior and I am frantically pressing something all of the time (and there is no rotation unlike rogues who have a semi-set rotation in even PvP). I don't have this pace as a rogue in any spec, PvE or PvP.

[jotad4]

Isn't anyone else bothered by the fact that it was previously stated that rogues are supposed to 'build up combo points so you can do even more damage with finishers?' I mean, rotations aside, aren't rogues the only class critting for 40k with all the possible buffs you can get? It would be one thing to crit 40k on SS or Mut, but on a FINISHER? Weren't finishers designed to be better than what builds it up? For example, let's talk about Firelands. Let's say a guild decided to do this strat on Shannox for no reason whatsoever: rogue stays on Rageface to stop the Face Rage it does. Can it be done? Hardly. Ok, so let's get a hunter. Can it be done? Yes. DK? Yes. Warrior? Yes. Mage? Definitely. Warlock? Yup. Shamans? Why not.

What I mean is, aside from the stuns we have, which is completely and utmost useless in a Raid, a rogue's finishers are completely pathetic. 'WHOOO YEEEAA! Let's Evicerate - 15k SS > 15k SS > 15k SS > 15k SS > 20k Eviscerate...'

Really? Well, I haven't played rogue in TBC or Vanilla, but from what I played as a Druid, Warrior and Shaman, rogue is completely broken. If I switch targets as a Warrior I can instantly go back to my highest DPS, and almost the same with the Shaman. With rogues, you start pretty much from scratch every single time, and if not from the not-so-useful Redirect on a 1min cooldown, it'd be even worse.

In my opinion, they should re-make rogue from scratch and think of somethig new, unless they plan on making CPs, DP stack and BG char-bound, which, in theory, would be OP. But then again, with the current situation of rogues, nothing else comes in mind.

[The Chad]

Isn't anyone else bothered by the fact that it....

While I do feel the same, that's not what this thread is about. We're talking about how fast the rotation feels, not how hard an ability hits. It's more than likely a result of Slice and Dice scaling too well with the huge attack power boost that Cataclysm brought. The difference of Agility from T11 and 25 Heroic T10 is 528, as compared to T7 and T6 which is a measly 124 difference (and this is only looking at 5 pieces of gear and not counting weapon damage, the highest from the previous expansion against the first of the following expansion). But anyway, please stay on topic.

Now back to the topic at hand.

As for Combat feeling fast, that's good and all but that still leaves two specs out of the water. And how often are you using each GCD outside of Adrenaline Rush? Keep in mind Warriors may have a 1.5 GCD, but they also have Heroic Strike and Cleave to dodge it as well.