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  1. #21
    My raid is running it right now! (my turn on the bench) We usually 2-heal it. Left side (facing Staghelm) is Disc priest healing a DK, Shaman handling interrupts in an elemental spec, shadow priest, boomkin. Right is holy paladin, resto druid, rogue, frost DK. Fire mage up in the air on Alysrazor. We're still struggling on this fight, but we have managed to get it down several times with a similar combination (tonight's bench is hunter and arcane mage - that's me). Last time we attempted it the boomkin and frost DK were on the bench, we had shaman healing instead of resto druid (who went boomkin) and we couldn't get it down because our DK kept hitting the dirt too. Those tantrums are a bitch, and the melee hits hard. DKs are brilliant on Staghelm because the damage is predictable and they can heal back up.

    I'm not a healer, so I don't have any actual advice, but it can be done with 2 healers as the only major raid damage is during the 4th phase (which is a good time for Barrier, as I'm sure you are aware). They just switched to 3 healers and got her down, but our raid DPS is much higher than yours.

    My worry is that your overall raid DPS is a bit low, it's going to be a struggle to get her down in time. Also, you've got fieroblasts hitting your DK all the time, which quite frankly is disastrous. Your dps needs to be closer to the druid caster than the DK is so that hopefully the fieroblasts hit them if you miss those interrupts. Until the birds come up your tanks can interrupt the initial fieroblasts - ours do. Most of your DPS appear to have long cooldowns on their interrupts, which is a pain. Given that one of your DPS should be up in the air DPSing Alysrazor, you are really going to struggle with that raid composition and that's no fault of anyone.

  2. #22
    we 2 man heal every boss atm @ FL

  3. #23
    One thing I cannot understand is how you have interrupt fails. Your elemental shaman can handle one side of adds by himself and the DK and rogue can handle the other side.This is a fight were non-tanks can honestly take 0 damage outside firestorms and p4. A Fieroblast on a tank during tantrum or right after gushing wound can kill the tank; and the healer really should never have to target anyone other than the tank till p4.

  4. #24
    1. interupts - since the fight is generally 2-healable, theres nothing wrong with 3rd healer being half-healer half-disspeller. make sure this healer is mobile and stuff (plus shamans have some interupts as well, make use of it)

    2. dk tank - dk tanks take some time to get used to them. they have some self-healing but they also take very spiky damage - in general you have to be focused when healing such a tank. also dk has to be aware of his health pool all the time and make use of his cooldowns.

    3. armory
    i checked you on armory, crit stacked.
    your stats are: crit / haste > mastery (12%)
    well if you heal tank who takes spiky damage, and your healing bases on hoping for spiky big heal occurring, then yeah, maybe you will get crit in a right moment and your tank will live (im such a unbalanced-crit-stacking hater, yes i am)

    and you know whats the saddest part (looking at logs now) - your PW:Shield is your top healing spell. while your shields are not affected by crit and haste at all.

    where exactely is the logic? i dont say your stats are bad, i dont say your playstyle is bad but those dont go in pair at all.

    4. logs
    a) i go through your attempts and... 13min44sec wipe - thats a very long attempt!
    so i go through your dps: do you have anyone flying with 3 feathers? doesnt look like. i recommend giving this job to a mage, rogue interrupting on one side, shaman dispelling on other side, should be ok to sacrifice one mage.
    update: i assumed your mage interrupts, i run query on wol and i dont see him interrupting, but it might be my weakness in querying wol

    b) healing!
    seems fine. im not gonna go through logs specifically though.
    just keep in mind that your top healing spell in your logs is PW:Shield. which is boosted only by mastery. which you have minimal amount of. not the most efficient combination, is it.

  5. #25
    Just be prepared for tantrum and overheal it... you can recover mana later in the burn phase...
    Let the gushing wound drop before tantrum, but if you can't do it in time spam heals. Unless he is taking innecesary damage (bushfire, alysrazor flying over, fire pew pew) he won't die.

  6. #26
    I don't heal this fight the way you do, but the Guide to Alys early in this thread is pretty much exactly the same. The difference is I use Atonement during Satiated phases and use AA to pop when Tantrum happens. I find it incredibly efficient and effective.

    Besides some tanking issues (i.e. running in fire), I looked at the healing logs and noticed your shaman is not just showing low on meters because they're interrupting. Last I checked, Resto Shaman don't use Healing Surge as their primary heal except for in pvp? I could be wrong, but I'm probably above 90% sure of that one. GHW = win. That being said... if the resto shaman isn't contributing much to the healing AND is being assigned to interrupts... AND you're having dps issues... 2 healing might be a good option. I'd normally agree with everybody who is saying to 3 heal it, but dead weight is dead weight and an ele shaman can just as easily put down a Healing Rain during the burn phase as a resto shaman.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by babylon View Post
    3. armory
    i checked you on armory, crit stacked.
    your stats are: crit / haste > mastery (12%)
    well if you heal tank who takes spiky damage, and your healing bases on hoping for spiky big heal occurring, then yeah, maybe you will get crit in a right moment and your tank will live (im such a unbalanced-crit-stacking hater, yes i am)

    and you know whats the saddest part (looking at logs now) - your PW:Shield is your top healing spell. while your shields are not affected by crit and haste at all.

    where exactely is the logic? i dont say your stats are bad, i dont say your playstyle is bad but those dont go in pair at all.
    Thank you all again for taking the time to help

    I´m quoting the above because that can help my gameplay.

    I used to stack nothing but Mastery but went away from it, since Im always assigned to Tank Heaing. And I was under the impression, that - in that case, it is indeed Haste - Crit - Mastery prio. Is this wrong?

    Will Power Word: Shield not always be our top Healing Spell, no matter how we reforge, because it is the way it is? Or should I - with a Haste Build - have Greater Heal top the list?

    There are so many debates out there concerning this. Since the Crit change, I have chosen Haste and Crit, because Im so bloody tired of seeing Heal/Greater Heal (/Prayer of Healing) take so long, and heal for so little. And the faster they are, the faster I can remove Weakened Soul. The higher Crit, the higher chance that they will actually matter instead of a rubbish 10k/20k/30k heal, which is nothing.

    Would you recommend I go back to Reforging out of Haste and into Mastery instead? So it would be a prio looking like this: 1. Mastery 2. Crit. 3 Haste?

    Thanks again

  8. #28
    We use DK/Paladin in our guild and tbh it's not that bad, I would switch it around, put the paladin on the DK and priest on the Paladin Tank and I would just have the Shaman go DPS and be doing constant interrupts and DPS at the same time. Yes I'm suggesting 2 healing it b/c it is easier, that's how we do it and it works wonders, also your Paladin in times of low dmg on the DK can HoJ one of them if necessary but really it's probably better for him to just dispel it and continue healing. Your Paladin Healer should be more than sufficient at keeping your DK alive as long as your DK is using his/her proper dmg reduction CD's and has a proper tanking spec so you might want to link your DK tanks armory too.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-15 at 03:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanija View Post
    Thank you all again for taking the time to help

    I´m quoting the above because that can help my gameplay.

    Will Power Word: Shield not always be our top Healing Spell, no matter how we reforge, because it is the way it is? Or should I - with a Haste Build - have Greater Heal top the list?

    Would you recommend I go back to Reforging out of Haste and into Mastery instead? So it would be a prio looking like this: 1. Mastery 2. Crit. 3 Haste?
    Personally I would suggest Haste - Mastery - Crit and PW:Shield should never be your top heal spell, it should be GH or PoH and DA (at least from the times I cared to look at my logs.) Really it comes to a personal preference as to what stats you stack, none are definitive as to which is best for our class. A good mix of all 3 is actually better IMO.

  9. #29
    this encounter if done correctly is very easy to heal tbh, but i wouldnt blame yourself. Looking at the logs that Dk has no idea what he is doing. We use a dk tank on this fight with np's at all so its not the class its the player. As long as he keeps getting hit by worms or brushfire you will never get it down simple as that. My advice would be sack that dk and get in a new tank cause there is no chance in hell you can outheal a tank that keeps fucking up.

  10. #30
    I'm a disc priest too and on the dk tank healing as well on this fight (in 25HC).

    All I can say is DK tanks are awful to heal on this fight. They can go from full to dead in like 1.5 sec.

    What I do is that I focus the hatchling and when his mood debuff goes from yellow to blue (before red), I start to mindlessly spam PW:S, penance, FH until he eats the worm and come back to yellow. You'll go oom faster, but you can regen all your mana on the burn phase so don't hesitate to use your expansive/faster heals. PS can be useful too when running to the meteor if the bird is not dead yet.

    From what I heard, moving the bird is key too. You can bring it close enough to the worm so that when he gets angry (his hitbox gets bigger), he eats it almost right away. Sometimes it seems he has to be moving to "trigger" this.

    GL!

    EDIT: After some reading, I see that Windry pretty much covered everything.

  11. #31
    If you want I can have a chat with our DK tank about what he does on this fight. Even when we were learning it healing him was never an issue so idk maybe he figured out some trick or something too it.

  12. #32
    Again thank you, keep it coming.

    That would be really great Arlee, if you could do that, I would appreciate that alot. Its very hard for me to guide him.

    Another important note to be aware of is, that this Guild consists of long time friends that also see eachother outside the game. So even though some of you have suggested to 'ditch' a player, this is not an opportunity.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanija View Post
    Hey lovely Priests
    Our Death Knight tank just keeps dying- Taking severe damage compared to our Paladin Tank.

    We have lacked interrupts too. So often one of our Healers have to watch over that, obviously resulting in him being half a Healer.
    These are both problems I have experienced, too.

    It's very difficult to tell if deathstrike is being used correctly from logs. DKs are extremely squishy, but a well played DK has the most stable health of all of them for bosses that hit really hard. Wierd right? Basically take a look at the tooltip for deathstrike. Costs 1 rune. I don't fully understand all the details but I do know that a skilled DK tank will never spend all his runes, but always keep 1 available for an emergency DS. Especially when there's an expected big burst of damage coming.

    If your DK is a team player he will keep that extra rune availalbe, wait until after the tantrum and deathstrike when he's getting low in health. Instant 30% heal, yum.

    It's not the only thing that makes a good dk tank, but it's a start. A dk that doesn't do at least this is too hard to heal.

    Is he strafing properly? Going flat-footed is very bad in this game.

    -----------------------
    From a standpoint of a healer on tantrums, there are 2 ways to handle the gushing wound. The best way is to let it fall off immediately before the hatchling tantrums. Gushing wound does 15k dps, and when you're healing that + tantrum it takes a lot more throughput. If you can let it fade between tantrums that's really good! Then you can heal tantrum reactively.

    The second way to handle gushing wound is just to heal through it. You have to recognize the animation for tantrum BEFORE the bird starts doing bonus damage, and start dumping heals into the tank before it happens. Anticipate the incoming damage, and remember it's an extra 15k hps you need! Most healers can't spike much higher than 25k on a single target without using cooldowns.

    Either way is good, letting gushing wound fall off before tantrum is probably a little better.

    ------------------------
    As for interrupts, you need at least 1 strong interruptor and 1 weak interruptor on each side, with enough dps to kill the druid before 4th feiroblast. For instance: rogue kicks 1st, hunter silence 2nd, rogue kicks 3rd. The sequence is important. If you don't have 4 people with interrupts, you're hosed, you'll be dispelling a lot. Shamans can cheat with grounding totem, but you'll still be dispelling.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-09-15 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #34
    First of all, ensure that your DK applies all his diseases to the hatchling. Outbreak or IceTouch+PlagueStrike when Outbreak is on CD.

    Second is tank must not turn his back to the hatchling never ever. It's very important, tanks can't avoid hits from back and bird will kick his ass fast and hard. Many tanks fail to recognize this. You can heal through this, but it's easier to learn how to move with strafes. I'm sure that there are people in your raid who know what I'm talking about and can demonstrate that to your DK.

    Third is hatchling must never enrage without strong tank CD. Tank should position him near worm and let him eat worm just when he enrages, not sooner, not later. That will allow to remove enrage 4 times. Fifth time he should use Icebound Fortitude. Sixth time he should use bones and vampiric blood and you shoud use pain suppression on him.

    Fourth is your job - you must know when you can let tank's HP be low and when you can't do that. When hatchling is happy and tank have debuff ticking 2 times per second - you should let his HP be below 50%. After that dot removed and you have to heal him back quickly. When hatchling happines is about to fade, don't do that. Even if tank will use worm to remove enrage, there will be 1-2 hits which can kill him fast if he's not topped before.

    Fifth is obvious - don't stand in any fire. It should be very easy for tank. All damage is avoidable. Antimagic Shield if for some reason he have to stand in fire.

    Other than that he should use his cooldows very often, that helps a lot.

    DK is excellent tank for this fight, when properly played. I tank this encounter on heroic mode and I don't have any significant problems, so problem is not the class.
    Last edited by vsb; 2011-09-15 at 06:26 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoweye View Post
    Once again.... coming form a DK, lol.... this is probably the worst fight for Dks in the instance. So i would completely agree with grabbing another tank for just this fight.
    Our DK tank tanked it with succes, but he didn't stacked mastery, only avoidance. And went for worm before add went hungry.

    I (Disco Priest) healed him with success, his life was more stable than warrior with holy pala on him.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanija View Post
    Would you recommend I go back to Reforging out of Haste and into Mastery instead? So it would be a prio looking like this: 1. Mastery 2. Crit. 3 Haste?
    there have been so many discussions about stats priority for a discipline priest, which may confuse people a bit.
    the worst (best!) part is, that all those combinations work.
    but they work for certain situations (assignment/setup/gear lvl) and for certain playstyles.

    i think that you should balance your stats a bit more. dont drop one stat completely, and never drop the stat which is affecting your top healing spell.
    which spell is on top of your list depends on your playstyle, when healing tank i often have power shield on top of mine list - but i have lots and lots of mastery.

    crit-stacking is a bit tricky - what if you dont get any crit in 5 casts when you really need healing burst? for me crit is more a bonus than a static improvement.

    as for dks-haters - it is a bit tricky as the damage they take is so spiky, but thats all. lets not pretend this tiny bit of challenge, especially for the class that bases on preventing the damage, should be a problem.
    they have attempts lasting almost 14 minutes and not being kills. id focus on dps, feathered person pulling upto 20k - thats wrong, not the class of the tank itself
    Last edited by babylon; 2011-09-16 at 10:19 AM.

  17. #37
    Something i haven't seen mentioned yet -- a rogue can get every interrupt on his side if he glyphs for kick.

  18. #38
    Thank you everyone, we have gotten some really good advice, both healing wise and tanking wise, Ill be sure to put it to good use.

    Quote Originally Posted by babylon View Post
    there have been so many discussions about stats priority for a discipline priest, which may confuse people a bit.
    the worst (best!) part is, that all those combinations work.
    but they work for certain situations (assignment/setup/gear lvl) and for certain playstyles.

    i think that you should balance your stats a bit more. dont drop one stat completely, and never drop the stat which is affecting your top healing spell.
    which spell is on top of your list depends on your playstyle, when healing tank i often have power shield on top of mine list - but i have lots and lots of mastery.

    crit-stacking is a bit tricky - what if you dont get any crit in 5 casts when you really need healing burst? for me crit is more a bonus than a static improvement.

    as for dks-haters - it is a bit tricky as the damage they take is so spiky, but thats all. lets not pretend this tiny bit of challenge, especially for the class that bases on preventing the damage, should be a problem.
    they have attempts lasting almost 14 minutes and not being kills. id focus on dps, feathered person pulling upto 20k - thats wrong, not the class of the tank itself
    Thank you! This is something I sure can relate to. Ill reverse my reforging and will take a closer look.

    Unfortunately we do not have a stable Rogue raider We are only 10 Raiders in the Guild, we have struggled for a very long time to find more, but without success. We have begun to run with 1-2 PuGs, like we did on our last Raid. With our entire Team online, we are the following Classes:

    Discipline Priest
    Holy Paladin
    Restoration Shaman

    Shadow Priest
    Marksmanship Hunter
    Balance Druid
    Frost Death Knight
    Arcane Mage

    Protection Paladin
    Blood Death Knight

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jamme View Post
    Friendly tips:
    Feed the birds for first 2 tantrums and use a defensive cd for the third. Then the boss comes down, and yada yada, and then repeat. You got pain suppression and the dk has shield wall. Problem solved!
    Completely disagree. If anything, eat the FIRST tantrum with a 50% reduction CD. This stacks up your vengance quicker thus giving u more dps thus killing the bird easier and also frees up the same defensive CD for when u tankAly during the ground phase.
    Last edited by panthro7; 2011-09-16 at 11:10 AM.

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Everything's already been covered, but I really have to say that your Dk tank is absolutely horrible. He's not even keeping his diseases up. He's not using his defensive cooldowns. It's pretty amazing how much a person can be lacking in knowledge of their class, not even including all the mechanics of the fight he's seemingly unaware of. It would be difficult for someone to get hit by that much avoidable damage in a single raid night even with 3 second lag spikes coming every 5-10 seconds.. I would replace the shit out of that guy.
    Last edited by Varyk; 2011-09-16 at 11:14 AM.

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