Legendary Daggers talks here please...

[Tekloth]

[SPOILERS] Legendary Questline Links and Info - Rogue - Wowhead Forums

Full quest logs, and information/guides about the quests before you obtain the p1 daggers.

My post from the EJ rogue forums with calculations for the questlines duration in total:

With the droprate of 4-8 shards per 1 cluster, 1 cluster per boss on 10man, 2 on 25man, it'll take around ~14.5 weeks to obtain the legendaries on 10man and ~7.2 weeks on 25man counting with a 6-per-cluster-average if the numbers of shards (333) and clusters (60) remain the same when the patch hits live, which I assume will happen due to the previous release candidate build on the PTR's.

A bit more time into studying the quests shows, that if you can convince the raid to allow you to get the p1 and p2 daggers immediately, when you have the chance (i.e halting raid progress after Hagara, so you can do the questline to start collecting shards), you would require 43 bosses on-average to reach phase 2, leaving you with +-3 bosses from the 6th reset for phase 2 clusters. For phase 2 you'd require 7 resets + 1 boss from the 8th reset which would be the same reset you'd get your legendaries. Totaling to 14 resets on 10man.

If you're lucky enough to get 8 shards from each cluster, this drops down to 38 bosses for p1, 2 bosses from the 5th reset and 7 resets + 2 bosses from the 8th reset for p2, dropping the time required to 13 weeks. On 25man the numbers are half from this.

So in all of its simplicity; p1, depending on your luck, will last for around 5-11 resets on 10man, and 3-5 resets on 25man, p2 always requires 7 full-clear resets and 4 bosses on 10man, and 3 full clear resets and 6 bosses on 25man. So theoretically the legendary daggers become available on the 7th week post-patch on 25man and 13th week post-patch on 10man.

All of the above calculations assume that you kill every boss on normal since the first reset, that you are eligible to collect the quest shards for p1 from the last 4 bosses of the first reset, and that the amount of clusters dropped per boss is unaffected by heroic mode.

If the amout of clusters dropped per boss remains the same as normal on heroic, then the above calculations would be precise, if heroic affects the amount of clusters dropped, the time required to obtain the daggers would lessen significately after the first time you kill Deathwing.

One could, theoretically, move a rogue into a ten man group that has 3/8 down, pickpocket Hagara, then start the questline without being saved to a single boss in DS. If they then cleared normal on 25 man later in the week after P1 of the questline is done, then you would have 6 more clusters in week one (on 25 man). I don't think most guild's would be so accommodating, but that would be the fastest way to acquire the legendary.

If the above strategy is used, it'd end up with the following numbers on 25man;
Worst case scenario (4 shards per cluster):
5 resets + 2 bosses, 42 bosses in total for phase 1,
6 bosses + 3 resets (OR 3 resets + 6 bosses if your guild won't allow you to turn in the quest mid-raid, you'll end up on the 10th reset anyway so it doesn't matter if you kill the bosses before or after the 3 resets), 30 bosses in total for phase 2,
which sums up at exactly 9 resets for phases 1 and 2 if you turn the quest in mid-raid, 10 resets if you don't, and 10th reset is when you obtain legendary since you won't be able to kill Deathwing for the legendary daggers at the 9th reset, 10 weeks in total.

On average (6 shards per cluster):
3 resets + 4 bosses, 28 bosses in total for phase 1,
4 bosses + 3 resets + 2 bosses (OR 3 resets + 6 bosses if your guild won't allow you to turn in the quest mid-raid), 30 bosses in total for phase 2,
which sums up at 8 resets for phases 1 and 2 if you turn the quest in mid-raid, 9 resets if you don't, and you obtain the legendary daggers on the same reset, sums up at 8 or 9 weeks in total.

Best possible scenario (8 shards per cluster):
2 resets + 5 bosses, 21 bosses in total for phase 1,
3 bosses + 3 resets + 3 bosses (OR 3 resets + 6 bosses if your guild won't allow you to turn in the quest mid-raid), 30 bosses in total for phase 2,
which sums up at 7 resets in total for phases 1 and 2 no matter which way you complete the quest, and you obtain the legendary daggers on the same reset, sums up at 7 weeks in total.

As such, the realistic figure for a 25man raid to obtain the first legendary is anywhere between 7 and 9 weeks.

OK, back to calculating, this time 10man using the strategy mentioned above:
Worst case scenario (4 shards per cluster):
10 resets + 4 bosses, 84 bosses and in total for phase 1,
4 bosses + 7 resets (OR 7 resets + 4 bosses if your guild won't allow you to turn in the quest mid-raid), 60 bosses in total for phase 2,
sums up at 18 resets in total for phases 1 and 2 if you turn the quest in mid-raid, 19 resets if you don't. You'll be pushed to the 19th reset for the legendary, 19 weeks in total.

On average (6 shards per cluster):
7 resets, 56 bosses in total for phase 1,
7 resets + 4 bosses, 60 bosses in total for phase 2,
sums up at 15 resets, you obtain the legendary on the 15th reset. 15 weeks in total.

Best possible scenario (8 shards per cluster):
5 resets + 2 bosses, 42 bosses in total for phase 1,
6 bosses + 6 resets + 6 bosses (OR 7 resets + 4 bosses if your guild won't allow you to turn in the quest mid-raid), 60 bosses in total for phase 2,
sums up at 13 resets if you turn the quest in mid-raid, 14 resets if you don't. You'll get the legendary on the same reset as you finish your p2. 13 or 14 weeks in total.

As such, the realistic figure for a 10man raid to obtain the first legendary is anywhere between 14 and 17 weeks.

Conclusion:
The disparity between the time it takes to complete the chain 10 and 25man was to be expected, the figures show that when the 10 man raider gets his first legendary, the 25man will probably have 2 already, or is close to completing the second which kind of evens it out considering the number of people (and rogues) involved in the raids. Your basic 10man will usually have that 1 rogue, and 25man either 2 or 3, thus the "whole" raid has obtained its legendary daggers in a similar time frame.

[ripslyme]

14+ weeks. So its another useless Legendary for 10 man Progress Guilds, And i thought they would have learned something from the Staff and its the last Raid too...

[dicertification]

14+ weeks. So its another useless Legendary for 10 man Progress Guilds, And i thought they would have learned something from the Staff and its the last Raid too...

it really evens out for both as a 25 man will get two in the time 10 mans get one (approx). Seems fair for the number of people involved.

[patcherke]

it really evens out for both as a 25 man will get two in the time 10 mans get one (approx). Seems fair for the number of people involved.

the problem is not whether it is even for 25 or 10 men, the problem is that by the time a 10-men guild gets one, the tier is almost finished.
For example; we are a 10 men guild that gets 6/7 HC, and our mage still has not finished his staff (and we all know how close 4.3 is) meanwhile there are 25-men guilds that are 1/7, that have more than 1 legendary for several weeks already.
25-men can use legendaries for progress faster, thus speeding up the progress even more.

what they need to find is a system in which a player can only have a max amount of shards/tokens/whatever-you-are-collecting each week, and then let there be 2.5-3 times more of those on 25, so that there can be multiple people collecting at once.
that would mean that they both will get legendaries at around the same time, but 10-ers will have 1, while 25-ers will get 2-3 (2.5 on average) in that time.

14 weeks is half a tier in time...
(not that it is so bad that it takes time, but it is ridiculous long when compared to a 25-er guild to get one at least.)

[tobyaz]

The only thing i am curious about the legendaries at this juncture is this. Sinister strike/revealing strike. Did they forget mutilate seeing as assassin rogues don't use sinister or revealing at all. Is this an oversite or a shaft to assassin rogues?

[Ulmaz]

Combat with a main hand dagger thats 1.8?

[Drunkenblow]

The only thing i am curious about the legendaries at this juncture is this. Sinister strike/revealing strike. Did they forget mutilate seeing as assassin rogues don't use sinister or revealing at all. Is this an oversite or a shaft to assassin rogues?

Neither, the only reason for the buff for combat is to make them viable

Combat with a main hand dagger thats 1.8?

Thats why it has the 45% buff to sinister strike/revealing strike nab

[Ulmaz]

....I know. nvm, 10char

[Gekku]

Join arena. rogue with legendary open on you /leave

[tobyaz]

ah nod nod i getcha now rofl Im running on fumes just got home from the stinky prison work. Thx for the quick reply

[quikbunny]

Overpowered is overpowered, gratz on the Gladiator ranks next season.

[Coldkil]

Overpowered is overpowered, gratz on the Gladiator ranks next season.

Yeah, beacuse every rogue pvping will have an easy road getting the legendaries. We bashed the argument a thousand times, among the few rogues who will get the legendaries, even fewer plan to do serious pvp, and only a part of them will be successful.

Sure, legendary team is unbalanced. But nothing has been done with shadowmourne and warglaives, so i don't think this time will be different.

[marcelos11]

Overpowered is overpowered, gratz on the Gladiator ranks next season.

you do realize that due to the ramp up time on the proc that there will be very few actual rogues gaining the proc in pvp right?

[Diciple]

I got one of the clusters in 10 man but it wouldnt allow me to open it to retrieve the shadowy gems
"you cannot open this while collecting" or something along those lines
the quest im on says I need 333 shadowy gems
so im confused...if I cannot open the clusters how does this work?.

[snookiee]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but i was wondering at this time when all we know are the PTR stats, what spec these are looking to be best itemized for?

[Zik3l]

I personally think it will depend on how long the buff stack lasts. If it was a 1min buff, then there is a good chance we could get a proc off. But we would have to set up a burn in that proc.

[Pikapika]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but i was wondering at this time when all we know are the PTR stats, what spec these are looking to be best itemized for?

From what we can tell they're tuning the stacking buff proc rate different for each spec, so hopefully it's equally useful to all three.

[Kaoskadosk]

When it comes to PvP, I think that some people also seem to fail to notice that the graphic for our proc is VERY visual. Who would not CC a rogue when they see huge wings pop out fo his back? It's a 6 second duration and it's not that hard to control someone during that period.

[iykdef]

Combat with a main hand dagger thats 1.8?

[tobyaz]

that's what the 45% buff to revealing strike and sinister strike is for. To make up for the wrong speeds on the mh.