Merry Xmas to me, I'm on pace for the stage 2 daggers next week :-D
Merry Xmas to me, I'm on pace for the stage 2 daggers next week :-D
me tooooo
Does anyone know that if u get 333 gems midraid and keep on killing bosses those clusters you looted afterwards will disappear after you turn the shadowy gem part, before you pick the cluster part? Or should we quit the raid so the rogue can pick up the next part?
It would depend if your raid is ok with you going into Karazhan to do the 2nd sneaky part which could take awhile if you havent done it before, I did the 2nd sneaky shit on PTR and it was alot more horrible than the Gilneas one. But well thats all up to you and your guild I guess.
I get the feeling they wanted to make legendary daggers, and rogues just so happen to be the only class that uses them, when you think about it daggers are probably the only kind of weapon they haven't really done yet, there's been 2-3 one handers (depending on whether you count each glaive seperately), a staff, a healing 1 hander, 2 2handers, and a bow/ranged weapon, that (if i'm not forgetting anything) leaves daggers and a shield (because i'm sure we'll get one eventually)
LOL bro, only 6? You know as well as I do that's utter BS, but you've made your point I suppose, even though it's full of fallacy. Regardless 25 man guilds have more rogues to gear, more people to gear, and AS SUCH get more gear. 10 mans are on another level, and get drops accordingly. And yes, for the record, even tho I still do enjoy this game and still play it. I long for simpler times before 10 million subs and all that brought with it.
Yes 10m is more likely to get rng'd on gear, because yeah you won't have everything. You still theoretically have the same amount of time on average to gear up the raid on 10m, its just that you are likely to see more pieces with no gain. Also 25m is getting screwed on tier this time (which granted is only 1/3 tiers) so... There is really not any gear bonus to 25m, you get the same ilvl, same expected time to gear your raid including legendaries. Also as some one mentioned 25m guilds are dropping like flies, I don't see how you can say its being promoted when a large amount of guilds have downsized to 10m.
Also does the 25m getting that 1 dagger really help as much as you claim? You have 5-6 dps in a 10m raid on most fights as compared to 16-18 dps on 25m so that 1 rogue doing a bit more comparatively means far less. I remember when our mage got the first staff and his dps shot up like 6k or whatever, it honestly didn't make bal's enrage any easier or anything because the total raid dps in a 25m is triple 10m. A 10m mage adding another 6k is proportionally 3x better than what the 25m raid got. Also the fact that dps checks are far, far more lenient on 10m means having that dagger to push the dps a slight bit higher is far less important on 10m. So I completely disagree that the 25m raid gets any extra real benefit over then 10m.
Also your get it faster in 25 argument is missing the crucial point... its about gearing your raid group, not about gearing individual players. Go join a 25m guild, itll take you just as long to get your daggers because I can pretty much guarantee you that a 25m guild already has 1 rogue collecting so you'd be #2 which since you get exactly double the drops means you would get your daggers at the same time as you would in 10m.
I assure you it pisses off the 25m hm raiders just as much that normal has the same drop rate.
Last edited by Sesshou; 2011-12-16 at 09:30 AM.
How absurd is it if in a 10-men guild, our mage got his legendary staff 1 week (yes,1) before 4.3 hit? And how absurd is it if a guild at 1/7 HC gets their staff many many weeks before our guild that was doing 6/7 hc at that time?
How big is the chance that those 2 tokens (sorry my bad, I didn’t do enough lookup, but no reason to call me clueless) are sharded in 25-men? A lot slimmer than the one token being sharded in a 10-men raid, I can tell you that. Secondly they get more of the other non tier loot then (I cannot believe that is 2 items too)
In my guild it is 4, which is correct seen from an average point of view. If it is 13 in your guild, that only means your guild is above average for people that need that token, which is bad luck. But even then, the chance that of those 2 tokens that drop, there is one you can use (regardless if you win it or not) is more than 50% higher than on 10 men (64% vs 40%)
I never argued about how many rogues need a chance to get a shot at the daggers. From my part they release 3 clusters each boss, if the ratio between 25 and 10 men is that large.
Well that is exactly the clue of the whole situation …
So it is okay for a 10-men guild to wait that long before someone benefits, but it is not if it is a 25-men?
apparently a 25-men guild needs the legendaries more because of their tougher raid (which is btw countered by more flexibility in their raid setup, but that is not the discussion)
If you expand the thought, how long will a rogue in a 10-men guild benefit from the daggers?
1 month before MoP hits?
At that same moment, a 25-men guild will have raided with at least 1 set of daggers for several weeks. And yes, you are right, there are more rogues in a 25-men that need to do the collecting part, but if you average it out over the 2 or 3 rogues a 25-men guild runs with, that is still 50% or 33% for those several weeks.
How do you mean, 10-men is advantaged?
You say it yourself: what is the rush, so why should a 25-men guild get their first dagger set faster?
The purpose of a legendary is to actually use it, not to just collect it and put it in your bank, just for your information.
I am quite well aware of the fact that I won’t be able to use the dagger set for long, and to be honest I think that is a pity. I will still collect it, even if it is just to use for a few weeks.
But yes, I am kinda sick of the arguments thrown around about how much more 10-mens are promoted, because it simply is not true…
(and it is not the other way around either for that matter, both setups have their pros and cons)
And why should I shut up? Because we apparently don’t agree?
Sorry for this wall of text.
I did say that over time the gear up evens out, it is just so that 25 has an advantage at the start.
And I know there is nothing you can do about that, it’s RNG.
1 mage adding the 6k does indeed impact the raid more on 10 men than on 25, but the issue is that by the time this 1 mage can do that in 10-men, there are already 3-4 doing it in 25-men before that point. And by the time that mage gets it, the tier is over, so no impact whatsoever on progress, while there really is an impact (whether that is small or not) in 25-men.
That is why I made a solution with giving 2-3 sets to 25-men raid.
My statement of 25 being more promoted than 10 is indeed not correct either… but that doesn’t make my statement that it is not the other way around less true, imo.
I think the reason of 25-ers dropping is more due to the desire to raid with a group of friend, and not with half of the raid filled with people you don’t and won’t ever know. But that is my opinion.
Last edited by mmoc7f082fdd70; 2011-12-16 at 12:26 PM.
I don't know why 10man guilds whine it's not like the legendary daggers will mean anything for progress there shit compared to previous legendarys they don't give instant +10k like staff. tbh we will be lucky if they are even 1k above the axe from deathwing for combat for example
Last edited by mmoc519ed05f47; 2011-12-16 at 02:32 PM.
3 weeks down only 105 gems : / dayum you 10 mans!!!!
From looking at the legendary on wowhead it looks like the fangs have a "glow"/reflecting skin on them does anyone know if theres a way to tell at this point if that will overwrite landslide or if we'll just a have big yellow glow with dirt in it for a legendary?
http://www.wowhead.com/item=77949#modelviewer
Right so according to Shadowcraft the axe that drops on normal madness in the main hand produces a higher dps in combat spec than than using the first stage dagger set (and likely even the second stage set). So if asked to spec combat for heroic fights I'd like to use the axe MH and Vengence OH for the higher damage, however, this has left me with a question...If I only have one of the daggers equipped and one in my bag will the gem clusters still drop from bosses? Anyone tried this?
Thanks
I'm close to finish the first stage of the daggers (~300gems). Today my guild will most likely clear DS. Do i have to turn in the quest immediately when i get the 333gems or is it possible to loot the rest of the clusters and turn in the quest after the raid still keeping the "extra" cluster?