Stacking Mastery or The 1573 Haste cap

[Jahrastafari]

Parsing the mastery-heavy setup, I show a slight DPS loss (well within the margin of error,) assuming an additional partial Metamorpohsis, with expected scale factors. Again, like my previously mocked posts, the haste threshold is only relevant if you can guarantee an extra Metamorphosis.














I'm going to see if I can improve this sim for you. The stat prioritization looks less then optimal, from the scale factors pictured. Swap haste for crit, drop hit down to ~16.5% and I'm sure you can sim at 34k+.

We also differ on our Bane of Doom.

actions+=/bane_of_doom,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react&cooldown.demon_soul.remains>30

actions+=/bane_of_doom,if=target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react&(!ticking|(remains<45&buff.metamorphosis .up))

---------- Post added 2011-09-19 at 09:26 PM ----------

With your BoD change from the default 420-9 I get

Mastery heavy: 34193.6 DPS, which beats the haste heavy setup.

If you want to try to squeak out more BoD damage from the default priority, try:

actions+=/bane_of_doom,if=(!ticking&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react&cooldown.demon_soul.remains>30 )|(buff.metamorphosis.up&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react&cooldown.metamorphosis.remains> 177)

[avengingbt]

With the full priority list I linked on the first page, plus changing my char into an orc, plus focus magic, plus the haste build I was able to 34,380 dps (compared to mastery build at 34,280 dps).

It makes me wish I was horde and had a pocket mage

Although I still think there's some improvements to be made to the list regarding metamorphosis. At the moment the priority list will only cast meta if Moonwell Chalice and Demon Soul are available. Example:

Boss is going to die in ~20 seconds. Meta just came off cd, demon soul/chalice have another 30 seconds left on cooldown. Obviously in the real world you're going to just use your meta, but the simulation waits for DS/Chalice and eventually the boss dies. I tried the following line:

actions+=/metamorphosis,if=buff.moonwell_chalice.up&pet.felguard.active|target.time_to_die<=36

This increased my dps even further, upto 34407dps.

[Raeli]

So the end result is full mastery is better than haste at 1573 unless you can guarnatee an extra Meta than the full mastery setup?

[Lillah]

I don't want to be the annoying person that comes into a thread discussing simulationcraft and say "YEAH BECAUSE THAT'S SOOOOOOOO REALISTIC" (For the record, I think simulationcraft is excellent) but I think it holds so much truth concerning mastery vs haste for demonology. I'm just musing here and using some of my uncommon sense but this is how I feel:

What do we know about simcraft that's inconsistant with the way the spec is played/works?
1- Simmed around single target while meta is a spell which gains large benefit for/during clusters of aoe/burn phases. (Regarding burn phases, I'm not claiming it's a personal dps increase to delay it, but it's something which comes up time to time and does have an impact on the success of your raid.)
Considering this, mastery > haste.
2- Simcraft uses meta off CD (or trinket CD where moonwell chalice is relevant). In actual practice, meta is often delayed for many reasons during boss fights.. you take into consideration if the ability will be ready for the next burn phase, the next aoe pack, the next heroism/bloodlust, or whether you know you will miss out on a large chunk of the CD if you have to move soon.
Again: Mastery > haste.

Bottom line, while you may have a preference for playing with haste it just really isn't better on your average fight. Ultimately it depends on what you do with your character or the boss you're currently progressing on. On a single target and minimal movement fight , I may be swayed towards balancing mastery and haste but that's really about it.

[Penguin FTW]

The only fights I really delay Meta on are Beth and Alysrazor (well and Rag, but I'm not even counting that because it's so goddamn long and I use Doomguard at an awkward time), and neither of those matter.

And nobody is saying haste > mastery, just that you still want some haste to go with your mastery. That unspecific some amount is what's up for discussion

[Lillah]

It's not like it's possible to achieve 0 haste rating. You're always going to have like 1k at least. The way I see it, the least amount of haste you can get in favor of the largest amount of mastery, is the number you want to go for.

Everything I say is from personal observation anyway.. my opinion could change in the future, but at the moment I'm seeing the best overall results from heavy mastery stacking. I really think the value you place on haste is dependant on the type of fight you're progressing on.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I haven't yet seen any argument compelling enough in favor of more haste.

[silverhatred]

I wish I knew how to sim my rotation, it differs ever so slightly from simcraft but it does better. I use ther's mirror and chalice and my meta usage waits on the mirror proc. It can be a bit long sometimes but I am usually using the same amount of meta's in the fight.

[warician]

do not go for haste thresholds, even on affliction they dont help that much. follow the stat priority int>hit>mastery>haste=crit for demo


anyone who says to go for haste on demo is wrong

[Penguin FTW]

Well you sure proved everyone else wrong war

[Tritone496]

Great thread peeps - i was wondering if you could recalculate simcraft taking in to consideration rng for me please. thanks in advance

[warician]

Well you sure proved everyone else wrong war

lol thanks

[DeanyKong]

avengingbt, Jahrastafari, I want to tell you two that it's an absolute pleasure watching your debate unfold. (Except in the beginning where all the berating was going on.) I wish we had more intelligent discussions like this on MMO Champion.