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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    Nope, ICC was when the pugging started on my realm do not recall anything else ever being pugged or people even talking about starting agroup
    Yep. Thats when it started with my server. Pugging was ICC. It stopped come Cata. Its why only ~4 guilds have completed t11 on my server, and only ~2 (IF that) have done all of firelands, or even cleared it on regular.

    Come guild transfers, all ~7ish guilds on my server are leaving. So... For those of us who can't afford to jump ship and faction change etc etc, we're going to be left on a server that may very well be under 2000 players. lol

    INFRACTED! For uhm... Idk, I'll read the ToS later, I'm sure I'll find something in there I can stretch to cover whatever it is I don't like about you.

  2. #22
    What kind of backwater server did you play on during start of wotlk? Naxx25 pug clears happened on a daily basis on most servers, if not, then at least Naxx10 or OS10/25.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Calzaeth's Avatar
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    To answer your thread title, Blizzard has become obsessed with PUGs for a very simple reason:

    They want money.

    I know we all would like to live in a fantasy world where server costs and production costs are nonexistent, but alas, we do not. The more money Blizzard makes, the more awesome content we get. So how do they earn money? By giving a sense of accimplishment to those who are unable to schedule their real life around an online game.

    It's rather simple, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I don't think you're having so much a thought but rather complete mental diarrhea all over the internet and your keyboard and it's not pretty or even logical.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, during World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off. It never happened. It was simple: you didn't have a guild or time, you didn't raid!

    When Blizzard nerfed ICC it opened the floodgate of PUG'ing. Suddenly people who had never raided a day in their lives become "experts" in raiding.

    The way raiding used to be is you got together with a bunch of people from your guild on vent and spent hours going through a raid, having a good time getting gear, and talking & learning new encounters. Now when I look at trade chat it hurts my eyes <snip> Then if someone makes a mistake in the PUG raid they get flamed like they have just killed a puppy! <snip>

    If anyone ever spoke like that in my guild to any other player they would get kicked out the guild so fast. Raiding is supposed to be a fun way to spend your time but people who have only ever raided in PUG's are not experiencing that. There experiencing these absolute arse-hole "Elitists" who wouldn't survive one raid in a guild.

    Now I admit it, I have PUGGED raids before, Once or twice. The way players act yelling, name calling, ninja'ing items. It would make anybody who wants to raid think again.

    Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing their content. Yes people are seeing your content, but are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

    Your thoughts?
    I started as a Pugger. My main was (and still is) Darsithis, a squishy, not very good DK tank back when the LFD first came out. I decided, after getting over my immense fear of raiding, to whisper someone with a guild called HandiQuacks who was looking for a tank for an ICC pug. Surprisingly, they said I was one of the best tanks they'd come across in a long time, and I got an invite into the guild after the raid...and regularly raided until Cata with them before moving onto a larger 25 man progression guild (that was far more professional).

    Sometimes pugging is how you meet fantastic players who can add a lot to your raid team, or make new friends. It's one of the ways the community CAN come together. You can only group with fellow players, and people will remember how you behaved. I have a nice long list of people I've put on ignore because they were jerks in pugs, but I've also got a few neat people on my friends list because I liked them. Blizzard recognizes the benefits of people being able to pug and make friends.

    You'll find bad players anywhere, just as you can find great ones. Getting rid of pugs isn't a way to "limit" your contact with those you feel aren't up to your level. All that does it take possibilities for those players to learn from more experienced ones, and shuts them out of a big part of the game.



  5. #25
    Blizzard has become so obsessed with PUGs because the existing community won't play with the new players because they are all noob bad scrubs.

    Blizzard is obsessed with people seeing the content, because they spend a lot of money making it, and if a lot of people aren't using it then as a business they have to ask if it is worth making that kind of content.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskra View Post
    What kind of backwater server did you play on during start of wotlk? Naxx25 pug clears happened on a daily basis on most servers, if not, then at least Naxx10 or OS10/25.
    A very young server for me. It opened late BC. Got transfered over from Stormrage. I guess people just forgot about pugging when they joined in.

    INFRACTED! For uhm... Idk, I'll read the ToS later, I'm sure I'll find something in there I can stretch to cover whatever it is I don't like about you.

  7. #27
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!
    I'm sorry, but pugs were quite common in Wrath. I pugged every tier of the expansion on my Druid tank alt only a few weeks behind my main, so you clearly never paid attention to trade chat with all the people posting that they were LF X people. Even in BC pugging happened, although that pugging was really only for Kara and ZA.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #28
    Dreadlord
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    Came from a bad bad server and even I used to be able to get into Sarth/ 2 quarter Naxx runs as a shit DK back in the day
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
    Our characters are wearing the same pair of underwear, since like, Level 1. Damn that's unsanitary as hell.

  9. #29
    When WoW went mainstream the floodgate of douche bags was opened and I feel that is the root of most problems similar to this. Where once you could ask a question in gen chat and get a decent answer, now you get ridiculed (most likely). This stems to all parts of the game.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    Blizzard has become so obsessed with PUGs because the existing community won't play with the new players because they are all noob bad scrubs.

    Blizzard is obsessed with people seeing the content, because they spend a lot of money making it, and if a lot of people aren't using it then as a business they have to ask if it is worth making that kind of content.
    Its more like the new players won't play with the existing players because the existing players are a bunch of pompous, arrogant jerks.

    And the existing players won't play with the existing players for the same reason.

    Essentially everyone sticks with their small band of IRL friends because its the only way to play the game without getting screamed at. Its the only way to play the game and have fun.

    The anonymity of WoW allows humans to be too human with one another, and not "humane" any longer.

    INFRACTED! For uhm... Idk, I'll read the ToS later, I'm sure I'll find something in there I can stretch to cover whatever it is I don't like about you.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire contemporary's Avatar
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    Cant wait to pug the hell out of firelands D:

  12. #32
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing there content. Yes people are seeing your content, But are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

    Your thoughts?
    My thought is that you haven't been following Blueposts and interviews since...forever? The designers of WoW have been veteran players of games lile EQ and whatnot...and found them to be simply too hardcore. If you didn't start at day 1 AND stuck with it all the time, you got left behind.

    http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/...ards-Rob-Pardo

    "...we keep trying to think of ways to how to get the incredible experiences like that down to a larger group of players. We were doing 40-man raids at launch, things that were grounded in EQ motifs, but we keep trying to give more and more people that cooperative MMO experience. We've made it less hardcore, and it requires less people. We have Heroic dungeons and normal dungeons, we have 10-man raids. We wanted to introduce that fun and experience to as many people as possible."

    Which is good. I am sooooo glad that people like you who think everything needs to be tailored to unique snowflake players. When did that happen? I mean..everybody could buy their copy of Doom or Quake like 10, 15 years ago and decide if they see the content by playing on "easy" "normal" or "hell" setting and NOBODY gave a toss about it.

    Now suddenly it is a bad thing if people experience content? Glad you are most likely never getting a job in the gaming industry.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-20 at 08:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Malthred View Post
    When WoW went mainstream the floodgate of douche bags was opened and I feel that is the root of most problems similar to this. Where once you could ask a question in gen chat and get a decent answer, now you get ridiculed (most likely). This stems to all parts of the game.
    WoW went mainstream on day 1 of the beta....make no mistake.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  13. #33
    There was pugging in Vanilla, and significant pugging in BC (though it was still a pain). Wrath didn't help the situation at all.

  14. #34
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calzaeth View Post
    To answer your thread title, Blizzard has become obsessed with PUGs for a very simple reason:

    They want money.


    It's rather simple, really.
    Bullshit and self-deluding reason (of course they want more money..but they do get it in other ways and easier. I certainly didn't buy the game 7 years ago because of "40 man raids once I reach lv 60") , sorry to be so bland - the game had 5, 8, 10 million subs when only 500 000 - 2 million people raided. Which means 80% of the population were always happy doing something else: PvP, levelling alts, 5 mans, whatever.
    Last edited by det; 2011-09-20 at 06:22 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  15. #35
    I was running PuG Mount Hyjal and BT on my alts all the way back in TBC.

    I got into raiding initially Vanilla because I started doing Ony40 and MC pugs.

    Pugs have been around forever. I have no idea where you've been.

  16. #36
    Ive pugged in every expansion so IDK wtf your talking about. And raided with my guild in every exp except Wrath.

    And a side note: Blizz has lost a lot of subs and with that alot of the guilds that used to raid can't. They are just trying to get the number of raiders back up.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!

    When Blizzard nerfed ICC it opened the floor gate of PUG'ing. Suddenly people who had never raided a day in there life become "experts" in raiding.

    The way raiding used to be is you got together with a bunch of people from the your guild on vent and spent hours going through a raid, Having a good time getting gear, talking & learning new encounters. Now when I look at trade chat it hurts my eyes "LFM FOR EPICSLY HARD RAIDSRSS!!!!!! LINK ACHIEVEMENST!!! OR NU INV FOR YOU LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!11" Then if someone makes a mistake in the PUG raid they get flamed like they have just killed a puppy! "WUT TEH HELL NUB LERN2PLY YOUR FKCIKING CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!1LOOT BAN LOLOLO"

    If anyone ever spoke like that in my guild to any other player they would get kicked out the guild so fast. Raiding is suppose to be a fun way to spend your time but people who have only ever raided in PUG's are not experiencing that. There experiencing these absolute arse-hole "Elitists" who wouldn't survive one raid in a guild.

    Now I admit it, I have PUGGED raids before, Once or twice. The way players act yelling, name calling, ninja'ing items. It would make anybody who wants to raid think again.

    Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing there content. Yes people are seeing your content, But are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

    Your thoughts?

    You obviously don't see the big picture. The longer players can do content and not hit a brick wall the more likely they will be playing. That means more money to line their pockets. Hard Modes exist for a reason now. The current content has been out for awhile and with Deathwing Raid around the corner they want people to see it all.


    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Bullshit and self-deluding reason (of course they want more money..but they do get it in other ways and easier. I certainly didn't buy the game 7 years ago because of "40 man raids once I reach lv 60") , sorry to be so bland - the game had 5, 8, 10 million subs when only 500 000 - 2 million people raided. Which means 80% of the population were always happy doing something else: PvP, levelling alts, 5 mans, whatever.
    Subs numbers didn't truly take off til Wotlk when it became more casual friendly. Vanilla WoW didn't have a huge population and also back then hardcore gaming was still the thing. Blizzard wanted to expand their audience so they had to find a way to appeal to both sides. I believe a blue had quoted Sunwell as not even 2% of the population saw first boss get killed there. They want everyone to experience the content now. The bottom line is always money. You may not want to believe it but it's the truth.
    Last edited by Darthballz; 2011-09-20 at 07:15 PM.

  18. #38
    Most of these people cant get into a good guild so they pug because they are bad. They nerf content,why? because they are bad. They cant hide how bad they are behind 30% Icc buffs and now they will again think they are a lot better than they really are by clearing the now LOL FL.

  19. #39
    Mechagnome
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    I pugged karazhan enough times back in tbc. So that when pugging started on my server.

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Ive pugged in every expansion so IDK wtf your talking about. And raided with my guild in every exp except Wrath.

    And a side note: Blizz has lost a lot of subs and with that alot of the guilds that used to raid can't. They are just trying to get the number of raiders back up.
    So nerfing content will just bring back the baddies that quit because there wasnt a 30% icc buff to carry them, ya, thats the kind of raider a good guild wants lol. There are plenty of good guilds out there with big rosters but baddies cant get a raid spot so they quit the game until its nerfed to match their IQ.

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