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  1. #41
    Puggable content has been available since 2008, it's certainly nothing new, and it didn't start with ICC.

    I don't understand why people have a problem with it. It makes no difference at all whether there is puggable content in the game or not, there has always and will always be content available for the raiding guilds.

  2. #42
    Because WOW is not Everquest.
    Because WOW is 7 years old, and those of us who were around in Vanilla are 7 years older and that much busier with our lives.

    Take the "casual" player out of WOW and the subs would drop back to Vanilla numbers. Some might not see that as a bad thing, others do. WOW is the casual friendly MMO because it's become mainstream.

    Back in Vanilla I was raiding 6 nights a week. Now, while I could raid 3 nights a week, I cant raid the same 3 every week. There are countless people like me who would of quit the day we couldn't raid on a schedule anymore if it weren't for 'pugs'.

    -edit-

    Also, stop with the term "Baddies". What is this, pre-school?

  3. #43
    The correct answer is: Casual players are the largest percentage of the player base and Blizz is doing things to make them happy. It's smart business for them, and isn't affecting the hardcore players since doing the LFG raids doesn't give the same rewards as doing the normal and heroic versions of the raids in an organized group.

  4. #44
    It really shouldn't be hard to understand, but apparently it is. Blizzard wants people to experience their content. It's that simple.
    I'd say Blizzard were having to suck it up. When the 900k subscribers left in Q1 & Q2 and god knows how many this quarter, I'd think they would try anything to increase the playerbase. Even after the nerfs to 5mans and earlier tiers, players left. Maybe they're just trying to stop further losses. Lets just hope that the LFR doesn't descend into the qq that the LFD did.

  5. #45
    Pugs started as soon Patch 3.0 hit the game on my realm...it was a sad day in the world of warcraft.

  6. #46
    I always see it as this way, pugs have been going on since pretty much vanilla. Most guilds ran 40 man raids like onyxia's lair, nax...etc but there still was the occasional successful pug going on. Today, it's done on a massive basis for those people who cannot raid during the afternoon and are to lazy to create thier own guilds. Very rare does a pug accomplish EVERYTHING the tier it comes out but if you want to do that there's always guilds that are capable of doing that. Out of the 7-10 million players that play this game worldwide there are maybe 200 guilds currently 7/7 heroic in firelands and even less before the ragnaros nerf. I think blizzard wants to make looking for raid because most of their paying subscribers could care less about full progression the patch it comes out or are unable to accomplish it. No pug that I know of can accomplish 7/7 heroic (maybe there are some I don't know) but the chances with this looking for raid system are slim to none. People don't care they just want to raid and have fun and if you're looking for full progression join or start a guild because you won't accomplish it in looking for raid I almost guarantee it.

  7. #47
    It's simple, Blizzard got to realize that the number of people that used to play the game / even new ppl that couldn't play the game, due to lack of time, was growing bigger and bigger each expansion. Cause if a guy was 17 back in Vanilla, nowadays that dude is 22-23 years old and he has more obligations to attend to in real life. It's all a big management trick to increase sales.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by mgkeeper View Post
    Cause if a guy was 17 back in Vanilla, nowadays that dude is 22-23 years old and he has more obligations to attend to in real life. It's all a big management trick to increase sales.
    Agreed for the most part but I wanted to add most people who raid use a set schedule. They'll either make a pug that goes for example from 6pm to 12pm because they work from 8am to 4pm. Or when you have a girlfriend who likes wow or anime or whatever the schedule changes. Because your girlfriend isn't going to want to play wow ALL the time. Some girlfriends do but this is a rare catch. So looking for raid is a good "time" factor for alot of players.

  9. #49
    6-7 years ago, most "dedicated" raiders were in a different place in their lives.
    FF 6-7 years and most of these same players have careers, are married, even some with kids.
    I'm one of them.

    I use to have a strict raid schedule during MC days with 40 other people.
    FF 6-7 years and now I'm busy with work, married with children. The only commitment I have in life is to my family or my job. People fail to realize WoW is a "GAME", and take it too seriously. The only way I raid nowadays is through PuGs. The best time I had in WoW's 6-7 span was during WotLK when raids were easy enough that the trade channel was FILLED with PuG requests. Nowadays all you see is people forming groups for the old raids, or pvp.

    They are finally waking up to the "casuals" quitting en mass. This is one of the last "reverts" back to WotLK ICC days where WoW was at it's golden age. Just think about it, why spend months and months developing something only a small % of the population gets to see? That's just a waste of time.

    Deny it all you want, eventually "hardcore raiders" grow up and actually ding in real life. They get careers that keep them busy. They get married which keeps them even more busy. Or they have a bunch of kids, which they probably should consider playing with their kids vs online. I normally play when everyone's asleep and this is where PuGs come in handy. No raid schedule to adhere to. Just log on and join something and go. I welcome more PuG activity. WotLK days, here we come again.

    Btw the last "revert" will be healing back to unlimited to near unlimited mana.

  10. #50
    How has gaming changed in the last 10 years?

    There's been exponential growth in new markets (ie people who arent gamers) by having pick up and go games on your phone.

    To carve 11million out of the gamer demographic 6-7 years ago wasnt going to happen unless you widen the demographic.

  11. #51
    Simple answer for something so obvious, 70% of subscribers are casuals... i know it was a hard concept to knab...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!

    When Blizzard nerfed ICC it opened the floor gate of PUG'ing. Suddenly people who had never raided a day in there life become "experts" in raiding.

    The way raiding used to be is you got together with a bunch of people from the your guild on vent and spent hours going through a raid, Having a good time getting gear, talking & learning new encounters. Now when I look at trade chat it hurts my eyes "LFM FOR EPICSLY HARD RAIDSRSS!!!!!! LINK ACHIEVEMENST!!! OR NU INV FOR YOU LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!11" Then if someone makes a mistake in the PUG raid they get flamed like they have just killed a puppy! "WUT TEH HELL NUB LERN2PLY YOUR FKCIKING CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!1LOOT BAN LOLOLO"

    If anyone ever spoke like that in my guild to any other player they would get kicked out the guild so fast. Raiding is suppose to be a fun way to spend your time but people who have only ever raided in PUG's are not experiencing that. There experiencing these absolute arse-hole "Elitists" who wouldn't survive one raid in a guild.

    Now I admit it, I have PUGGED raids before, Once or twice. The way players act yelling, name calling, ninja'ing items. It would make anybody who wants to raid think again.

    Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing there content. Yes people are seeing your content, But are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

    Your thoughts?
    all of ICC was pugged...and much of BC
    What bosses will be in the Deathwing Raid?
    Quote Originally Posted by MauroDiogo View Post
    Leg 1, Leg 2, Hind Legs is a duo boss fight, Wings, Tail, Head and last Heroic mode only boss is his Chin. Totally optional and only for those hardcore enough. It's jaw dropping!
    Quote Originally Posted by Histidine View Post
    WoW is great.
    Not sure what game people are playing; I love the way things are.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mordredz View Post
    Simple answer for something so obvious, 70% of subscribers are casuals... i know it was a hard concept to knab...
    If they aren't now, they will be. Eventually people realize that spending hours and hours in a video "GAME" is a waste of time. There's better things to do with the hours in your day, that's why I don't bother with heroic modes.

  14. #54
    Pit Lord
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    PuGs were common on my realm even as far back as ZG. /shrug

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorkin View Post
    6-7 years ago, most "dedicated" raiders were in a different place in their lives.
    FF 6-7 years and most of these same players have careers, are married, even some with kids.
    I'm one of them.

    I use to have a strict raid schedule during MC days with 40 other people.
    FF 6-7 years and now I'm busy with work, married with children. The only commitment I have in life is to my family or my job. People fail to realize WoW is a "GAME", and take it too seriously. The only way I raid nowadays is through PuGs. The best time I had in WoW's 6-7 span was during WotLK when raids were easy enough that the trade channel was FILLED with PuG requests. Nowadays all you see is people forming groups for the old raids, or pvp.

    They are finally waking up to the "casuals" quitting en mass. This is one of the last "reverts" back to WotLK ICC days where WoW was at it's golden age. Just think about it, why spend months and months developing something only a small % of the population gets to see? That's just a waste of time.

    Deny it all you want, eventually "hardcore raiders" grow up and actually ding in real life. They get careers that keep them busy. They get married which keeps them even more busy. Or they have a bunch of kids, which they probably should consider playing with their kids vs online. I normally play when everyone's asleep and this is where PuGs come in handy. No raid schedule to adhere to. Just log on and join something and go. I welcome more PuG activity. WotLK days, here we come again.

    Btw the last "revert" will be healing back to unlimited to near unlimited mana.
    ICC was the golden days? That's a hoot.

    Who cares if the "casuals" quit en masse? It means WoW is merely shedding some of its water weight. If Blizzard has any interest in a steady stream of revenue, meaning sub numbers would stop spiking so hard throughout the expansion cycle, they'd stop catering to the players who are constantly subbing on and off throughout that cycle.
    Last edited by Lolercaust; 2011-09-20 at 08:22 PM.

  16. #56
    Who cares if the "casuals" quit en masse? It means WoW is merely shedding some of its water weight. If Blizzard has any interest in a steady stream of revenue, meaning sub numbers would stop spiking so hard throughout the expansion cycle, they'd stop catering to the players who are constantly subbing on and off throughout that cycle.
    People fail to realize the casuals make up the larger percent of the subscriptions. Just making up some numbers, lets say hardcores are 10%, raiders are 20%, rest are 70%. Would you rather keep 70% of your subscriptions or keep 30% of your raiders? It's not rocket science.

  17. #57
    High Overlord THevil30's Avatar
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    I pug a good deal on my server, using my alts. I play in a guild on my main.

    When you are leading a pug, you don't have the same sympathy towards people who screw up that you have towards guildies. It isn't that you are suddenly a douche, its just that you want to down this content fast, and have no interest in people effing up.

    I hate it when people classify others as "elitists."

    I personally expect people that are coming to my FL pugs to have at least Ilvl 360 gear. The thing is, you know how long it takes someone to get ilvl 360 if they actually try? One saturday. One. From just dinging 85.

    Here is how: Run the BG weekend over and over again, changing your HP to JP. When you have ilvl 346, run amani till VP cap. Buy the 378 relic/wand, use your JP to get more pieces of gear. Spend 5k to buy valor braces, 1k on justice boots, and then a few more K on various stuff like trinkets (mind you, if you dont have the money, you can get all of this with an extra like 4 hours of bgs.)

    Then do 1 day of FL dailies. This is a total of about 1 hour of questing, to get the neck.

    You should be 359 by now at least. If you arent run BWD 1 time. Then do 3 FL trash runs, get your cape, and voila! Ilvl 360+. (I have tested this, and done it on 3 toons so far.)


    OURS IS THE FURY -- Baratheon

  18. #58
    Epic! Punks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klork View Post
    Nope, ICC was when the pugging started on my realm do not recall anything else ever being pugged or people even talking about starting agroup
    My first PuG was ZG20 right before patch 1.11 came out. Than pretty much alt PuGed all of TBC

  19. #59
    first pug I went on that wasn't 15 man ubrs zerg or 10 man scholo/strat zergs was 20 man zg in vanilla. definitely remember seeing MC pugs as well. I was on a server that had lots of world top 10 kills from a couple of different guilds at the time though.... so the player quality average might have been higher than an average server

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-20 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    ICC was the golden days? That's a hoot.

    Who cares if the "casuals" quit en masse? It means WoW is merely shedding some of its water weight. If Blizzard has any interest in a steady stream of revenue, meaning sub numbers would stop spiking so hard throughout the expansion cycle, they'd stop catering to the players who are constantly subbing on and off throughout that cycle.
    I can tell you who, ActivisionBlizzard's (or w/e they're called) bottom line cares. A lot.

  20. #60
    High Overlord THevil30's Avatar
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    Blizz doesn't want another naxx 40 where only about 2% of the playerbase ever played it.


    OURS IS THE FURY -- Baratheon

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