1. #1

    DPS not where Simcraft tells me I should be

    Alright first off I will admit I do not have logs, I'm just now starting to realize that my DPS is very weak and as yet have not started logging. What I'm looking for here are theory pointers that could possibly help me ramp it up. I know I'm capable of the rotation, I believe my problem here is not fully grasping my priority list. I'm sorry, it won't let me post a link in here, but my info is:

    Server - Scarlet Crusade (US)
    Character - Rugdoctor

    This is my armory so you have an idea of where I'm at. I realize my gemming may be a little off as far as too many Reckless but I've been doing what I can to stay above the 2581 haste mark and still remained hit capped ECT. Also I know a staff isn't ideal for me, but it was a good upgrade from the MH/OH I was using and I do not expect to see Rag anytime soon even with the nerfs. My guild is very casual, but I still like to bring the most I can to the table to help us progress.

    Now I took SimulationCraft with my gearset and ran a check and it's telling me I should be able to put out 26k on a single target fight. That one threw me for a loop. I knew I was under performing but I had no idea how drastically. I'm only averaging 18-20k on my boss fights, sometimes less. Unless theres AoE I've never even come close to pushing past 22k.

    Also I know the type of boss fight will have an effect on it, for example during Beth I'm actually being sent up top because... Well I'm not a moron and I can avoid meteors, so I imagine the gaps in time spent actually damaging things will change my numbers. Also having to ramp back up and redot everything everytime I go upstairs does hurt my numbers. Rhyolith I lead the team moving him around since we have a hunter and an ele sham to deal with adds. But on Shannox I tend to cap out somewhere around 18-19k and even with trying to make sure Rageface hits Immo traps by life gripping lazy/stupid people around, there's absolutely no way I'm losing almost 7k DPS by being out of shadowform for less then 5 seconds, you know? I'm doing -something- wrong.

    All that being said here's a rough idea of what I do during my fights:
    -I do not keep Volcanic Potions with me, but if someone thinks they will make a huge difference I can start keeping a stack or two on hand-
    Open up with SW:P
    Mind flay until I hit my 5 stack
    Hope I hit at least one shadow orb during that initial ramp up, either way I drop a mind blast once I'm at 5 then apply VT and DP
    If my int buffs weren't procced at this point, I'll give it another mind flay's worth of time and if they pop refresh dots and throw out my shadowfiend
    Once the shadowfiend is out and my dots are at a full timer I blow archangel and mind flay like crazy. (Its worth noting during my archangel I try to only mind blast if I hit 3 orbs, I do not know if thats correct or not)
    After archangel is done and down and my dots are refreshed again I use my chalice and start praying for orb procs lol

    It's a rinse repeat of that cycle from there. I try to keep my DoTs refreshed during procs as much as humanly possible, one thing I do know is I tend to leave my Chalice unused sometimes for as long as a minute, I don't know if that is one of those things that should absolutely always be on cooldown or not. I keep my Shadowfiend up as much as possible, longest I'll wait is about 10s after the CD is over hoping for an int proc or two. I am guilty on occasion of leaving mind blast up for a few seconds after cooldown. I tend to only use SW: D if I'm low on mana, even when the boss is low on health, again not sure if that's correct or not.

    That's the basics of it, I expect I'm missing something in there somewhere and I apologize for that. Like I said earlier I knew I was under performing but I really was not expecting to find that I was over 5k dps below where my gear set should put me, and I'm really confused as to what I could be doing THAT incorrectly you know? I feel I'm on the right track, but there's obviously something I'm missing or not doing correctly. Or perhaps a combination of a lot of little mistakes adding up to one big DPS deficit.

    Someone be my Obi-Wan here, you're my only hope.
    Last edited by Rugdoctor; 2011-09-23 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Mind Blast on cooldown even in Archangel. You should use SW: D on cooldown when the target is under 25% HP. Always keep your DoTs up, don't let them fall off during Archangel. Theoretical DPS and actual DPS is not the same thing. What you are simming is not neccessarily the DPS you should be doing on a particular boss. You want to have at least three stacks of Volcanic Potion with you and should use one before the pull and the second one during heroisim combined with Archangel.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Sieger1145's Avatar
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    i haven't played in 6mos and i'm not super familiar with priest rotation, but button/server lag and movement and boss mechanics will all have an effect on your dps. usually a negative effect unless the boss has a dmg multiplier.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rugdoctor View Post
    Now I took SimulationCraft with my gearset and ran a check and it's telling me I should be able to put out 26k on a single target fight. That one threw me for a loop. I knew I was under performing but I had no idea how drastically. I'm only averaging 18-20k on my boss fights, sometimes less. Unless theres AoE I've never even come close to pushing past 22k.
    Let me ask you a few questions about your sim. First, what boss fight type did you choose, Patchwerk or HelterSkelter? What kind of latency setting did you choose? What player reaction level did you choose (elite/good/etc.)? What buffs/debuffs on the target did you select? How many iterations, what fight length, and how much variance in length?

    I ask these questions because they all affect the outcome of the sim's results. There really aren't any Patchwerk-esque fights anymore, so you're not going to get to the maximum DPS in a raid from a sim where this is set. If your latency is set as something really low and your player reaction time is set as elite, SimulationCraft is basically going to be a robot and cast/recast things perfectly when, again in a real raid, this isn't going to be the case. Did you choose to have Focus Magic and/or DI on your character for your sim? If you did, make sure you actually get these buffs in a raid, otherwise the sim is going to inflate your potential DPS. Next, if you did too few iterations (< 10,000, maybe even < 20,000) there is a chance that your numbers can be skewed by too few data points. Also in this same vein, if you have it set to a fixed fight length, you may see your sim's DPS get fairly high because of cooldowns/procs coming available right at the very end of the sim. Go for some variability to get a more realistic value.

    In short, unless you are running a custom sim that matches a boss fight ~90-95%, don't take a whole lot of stock in how much DPS you should be able to do based on the simulation (same goes for target dummies). If you're within 3-5k of the value, you're doing just fine.

  5. #5
    Twintop brings up good points. Make sure you're comparing simcraft results to bosses that are applicable. Beth'tilac is probably one of the worst for comparing real-time dps to sims. You'll get a much better idea from looking at Baleroc, Shannox, even Staghelm. Basically, bosses that don't have excessive of target swapping, dead time and movement.

    Secondly, what buffs does the sim say you have. Even if you're comparing numbers with most raid buffs, there can be diffrences. Dark Intent is huge for spriests, also to a lesser extent, Focus Magic. If your sim has these, but you typically don't run with them, it will be a noticeable difference.

    As for rotation, you should never be 'holding' mind blast back for 3 orbs. If MB is up, even if you only have one orb, use it. As strange as it sounds, Mind Flay is actually a dps loss over any other spell, when you have them available. Ideally, you should have orbs up for MB on cooldown and refresh your dots when they will benefit most (i.e. after you got a 3-orb MB or while procs are up). You should also be opening with all your dots immediately. You can refresh them after you get Empowered Shadow up, but if you're waiting for orbs before applying dots, your losing some damage at the front end of fights.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Let me ask you a few questions about your sim. First, what boss fight type did you choose, Patchwerk or HelterSkelter? What kind of latency setting did you choose? What player reaction level did you choose (elite/good/etc.)? What buffs/debuffs on the target did you select? How many iterations, what fight length, and how much variance in length?

    I ask these questions because they all affect the outcome of the sim's results. There really aren't any Patchwerk-esque fights anymore, so you're not going to get to the maximum DPS in a raid from a sim where this is set. If your latency is set as something really low and your player reaction time is set as elite, SimulationCraft is basically going to be a robot and cast/recast things perfectly when, again in a real raid, this isn't going to be the case. Did you choose to have Focus Magic and/or DI on your character for your sim? If you did, make sure you actually get these buffs in a raid, otherwise the sim is going to inflate your potential DPS. Next, if you did too few iterations (< 10,000, maybe even < 20,000) there is a chance that your numbers can be skewed by too few data points. Also in this same vein, if you have it set to a fixed fight length, you may see your sim's DPS get fairly high because of cooldowns/procs coming available right at the very end of the sim. Go for some variability to get a more realistic value.

    In short, unless you are running a custom sim that matches a boss fight ~90-95%, don't take a whole lot of stock in how much DPS you should be able to do based on the simulation (same goes for target dummies). If you're within 3-5k of the value, you're doing just fine.
    I admit to not being very familiar with Simcraft, so I did not know there was a latency or reaction setting, I did happen to notice that it said it was a Patchwerk fight... So I have to assume the other settings were some kind of default and very likely low lat/elite reaction. I don't have that sim up, I grabbed the program while I had some time to kill at the office this morning and ran a sim. I will do some fine tuned sims with it and see if I'm within reason there. In retrospect those all seem like painfully obvious details, but ones I overlooked all the same. Thanks for the reply Twin.

    More or less what I did was went to Kilees guide because I remembered that there was a copy & pasteable action list that was supposed to be fairly useful for getting a feel. I expect neglecting the rest of those details didn't give me an accurate take though.

    Also to Kurzior and Ariadne - Thanks for the tips there guys, I will keep that information in mind and work those changes into my next raid. Hopefully I can push my numbers a little higher

  7. #7
    baisically try and use mindblast more on CD if possible. especially when Archangel is up!
    compare 2 mindblasts with one mindflay. you'll see that they do significantly more dmg (even with 0 orbs) and are cast in the same time => dmgboost.
    you want to replace mindflay-dps-time through MB's as much as possible, but you also dont want to lose your ES buff!
    easiest way to do so: use MB on CD if ES duration is longer than about 8sec. (gives you a enough time to let MB cooldown wear off, whilst hopeing for a Orb, and to recast MB without letting ES fall off)
    its a better idea to ceep MB on CD and ignore ES than to always wait for 3 orbs...

  8. #8
    Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet...but that haste point you're going for is 2589, for the extra VT tick. Not 2581. So you're a teensy bit below where you want to be.

    .....except you're a goblin and your racial has to be taken into account. Can't remember what haste rating goblins need to get that extra tick. But you would almost certainly be able to gem pure int in your shoulders, boots, belt without going below it.

    Only a minor-ish thing I guess, but yeah.
    Last edited by snarkysnark; 2011-09-23 at 09:09 PM.

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