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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    I see... So even 1v1'ing against a non-healer, it'd still be best to use Necrotic+Howling vs Oblit (with Rime)?

    Do you think having Rime over Desecration/Hand of Doom to retain a viable PvE spec is okay?

    (I don't know where to spend my last 2 Talent Points. For a dual PvP/PvE build, should I get 2/2 Butchery, 2/2 Improved Frost Presence, or 2/3 Epidemic?)
    I always use Necrotic against anything that can heal. Rogues can Recuperate, Warriors can... Bloodthirst? Other DKs can Death Strike. Warlocks, well, no need to explain. The only class that Necrotic is fairly useless against is Hunters, simply because they have no self heal other than Spirit Bond, which is a deep BM talent that 99% of PvP Hunters won't have.

    As for specs, I'm not sure what's best. Not having Necrotic drop the Desecration is pretty huge. You'll have a hell of a time holding onto anything that can dispel your snare. You're also going to want Chillblains, which doesn't fit well into a PvE spec.

    In my humble opinion, to try to minimize the DPS lost from talents, I might go with this as a dual-purpose spec:

    http://wowtal.com/#k=ekcDfHSc.b0w.deathknight.

    Endless Winter is nice, but you'll be swimming in RP as 2H Frost. So, it's your call man.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Endless Winter is nice, but you'll be swimming in RP as 2H Frost. So, it's your call man.
    I've just had many situations where I don't have enough RP to cast Mind Freeze, and it wasn't pretty... >_<

    What about Bladed Armor, could I drop a couple points from that or...?

  3. #23
    Just so you know, I'm no mathematician. I'm a simple DK who was just looking for answers. Any info I provide is simply based on "what I've seen" and "my experience". I can make no claim to whether or not something is better/worse by numbers.

    That said, I've never seen anyone pass it up. At the end of the day, Necrotic Strike (although handy) hits like a Holy paladin, and we need every ounce of empowering talents we can find to ensure that those Frost Strikes are as devastating as they can be. I'm really not sure what you would take in place of those three talents... (?)

  4. #24
    I prefer this:

    http://wowtal.com/#k=-twMMIl5.b0w.deathknight.

    You can trade out Annihilation for Bladed Armor. I like to save my KM procs when the target is under 35% for obliterates, and Annihilation helps support that. It's personal preference though.

  5. #25
    There should really be no reason to use the Glyph of Dark Succor now other than farming normal BGs. In arena and Rated BGs you -should- have a healer with you and without one you -should- be dead.

    Something to note though is Improved Frost Pres. Once you have the right gear you will likely be generating more RP than you are dumping especially if you are chaining multiple targets. It is purely personal preference and your group composition/role in the group but dropping those two points and adding them into Runic Power mastery or even one or two in Annihilation isn't a terrible choice. This is completely dependent on your gear and how much RP you generate though.

    Bladed Armor is too much of a damage increase to pass up and neither Resilient Infection or Morbidity will make up for it.

    The loss of Desecration is far greater than gaining a faster Strangulate.

    As for minor glyphs I prefer Horn of Winter/Blood Tap/Path of Frost. The damage reduction from falling can be very valuable especially when you didn't get a chance to pop Pillar fast enough. This of course is useless 99% of the time in Arena.
    Last edited by Sobegreen; 2011-09-30 at 09:24 PM.

  6. #26
    Is Pillar of Frost any good? I was Frost-spec'd before it came out, and been Unholy since then. But I just don't see how it can be any good, for PvE or PvP... Seems like a waste of 1 Talent Point. Can a 20% str increase really make up for that lost rune? (pve-wise) And as for pvp, isn't the only thing it'd protect you from "tsunami" and thunderstorm? And goodluck using Pillar before getting hit with those, you'd need ESP to time that sh1t right <_<

    (Slightly sarcastic, I realize 20% str IS a lot xD I just don't like that skill :P)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    Is Pillar of Frost any good? I was Frost-spec'd before it came out, and been Unholy since then. But I just don't see how it can be any good, for PvE or PvP... Seems like a waste of 1 Talent Point. Can a 20% str increase really make up for that lost rune? (pve-wise) And as for pvp, isn't the only thing it'd protect you from "tsunami" and thunderstorm? And goodluck using Pillar before getting hit with those, you'd need ESP to time that sh1t right <_<

    (Slightly sarcastic, I realize 20% str IS a lot xD I just don't like that skill :P)
    The only time I use it other than for the damage benefit, is when I think I'm about to be gripped by another dk.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsod View Post
    Prime: Howling blast,Frost strike,Obliterate(2h) or frost fever (2*1h)
    Major:Stragulate,Anti-Magic shield,Hungering Cold or Dark Succor if you really want to farm in this spec
    Minor: Horn of Winter,Resilient Grip(even if its bugged sometimes),Blood tab
    Thx for answar, about minor, not worth spaw Horn for Death embrace?
    for self healing
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer1989 View Post
    Thx for answar, about minor, not worth spaw Horn for Death embrace?
    for self healing
    Death Embrace doesn't count for healing yourself anymore, nerfed a bit ago.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieft View Post
    Death Embrace doesn't count for healing yourself anymore, nerfed a bit ago.
    thats good to know^^ ty
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  11. #31
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    I'll contribute what I know/do, maybe it'll help some others

    My spec is 2h desecration frost from AJ

    I haven't used Oblit ever, everything I've read about it says not to. The dmg on FS is comparable as mentioned above, but the real reason not to Oblit is because HB/NS is more benifitial (RP generation, debuff, etc.)

    MY hardest descision I still can't decide on is whether to DW or 2h. I've switched back and fourth between em and on a dummy the dW seems to do more dmg, but in pvp I do much better when using 2h. for one it seems that I get less killing machine procs as dw, secondly if i'm not sitting on the target i'm losing potential dmg (where as the 2h slower swing timer/more dmg is more forgiving) I've boiled it down to my fighting style favors 2h because I'm overjumpy, back and fourth through the enemy, although thats just my theory.

    I use the Glyph of rune strike because when ever i can use it, if I don't have a KM proc, I might be able to crit them (to gain/keep stacks using the apparatus)

    I'll switch around with Glyph of Hungering cold and strangulate, HC is pretty ineffective and 2 extra sec of silence is lethal. depends on what i'm doing really...



    Seriously though, if anyone can explain why DW > 2h, or vise versa with actual evidence or something I'm doing wrong, please enlighten me. getting ruthless weaps next week so I'd like to know which ones to get.

  12. #32
    Yeah thats what im wondering to DW or 2hander, Atm im gona stick with a 2hander as its just less conquest points. Some times i get raped by dw dks sometimes i rape them. Don't think there is a big difference and its more personal choice, both seems competative in thier own right.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    Is Pillar of Frost any good? I was Frost-spec'd before it came out, and been Unholy since then. But I just don't see how it can be any good, for PvE or PvP... Seems like a waste of 1 Talent Point. Can a 20% str increase really make up for that lost rune? (pve-wise) And as for pvp, isn't the only thing it'd protect you from "tsunami" and thunderstorm? And goodluck using Pillar before getting hit with those, you'd need ESP to time that sh1t right <_<
    Pillar of Frost is great for both PvE and PvP. For PvE you want to pop it and then summon your ghoul. The ghoul greatly benefits from the extra strength. Same for PvP. It is on a 1 minute cooldown so you have 20% extra strength every minute for 20 seconds. 33% uptime on 20% more strength is VERY good.

  14. #34
    Well the preferred rotation I have seen for 2h Frost is Mostly necrotic + HB. And when the Killing machine procs, then we use Obliterate. rime is actually quite useful.

    Althought this is my spec - http://wowtal.com/#k=R_2Xhjkr.b0w.deathknight.-RCTWi

    I do feel its effective, since u get a free HB + necrotic which is like a 12k damage.

  15. #35
    I would definitely agree that Pillar of Frost is highly worth the single point. It's worth it for the 20% Strength alone, but the knockback resist is just gravy if you happen to be up against a Moonkin or Elemental Shaman.

    As for Rime, I think the school of thought is that you *in theory* use Obliterate so infrequently that it's a waste of points. That's not to say it's ineffective. On the contrary - if it's working for you - great! However in a competitive Arena setting against targets with 4000+ Resillience, I think you're going to start seeing a sad ROI for those two runes you spent on an Obliterate that could have been, well, anything more useful (higher Necrotic stack, a COI, popping POF, etc).

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by obscurede View Post
    Well the preferred rotation I have seen for 2h Frost is Mostly necrotic + HB. And when the Killing machine procs, then we use Obliterate. rime is actually quite useful.

    Althought this is my spec - http://wowtal.com/#k=R_2Xhjkr.b0w.deathknight.-RCTWi

    I do feel its effective, since u get a free HB + necrotic which is like a 12k damage.
    Frost Strike on killing machines, not obli and completely skip rime.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    Is Pillar of Frost any good? I was Frost-spec'd before it came out, and been Unholy since then. But I just don't see how it can be any good, for PvE or PvP... Seems like a waste of 1 Talent Point. Can a 20% str increase really make up for that lost rune? (pve-wise) And as for pvp, isn't the only thing it'd protect you from "tsunami" and thunderstorm? And goodluck using Pillar before getting hit with those, you'd need ESP to time that sh1t right <_<

    (Slightly sarcastic, I realize 20% str IS a lot xD I just don't like that skill :P)

    Frost of pillar is one of the best Melee CD's in the game. 20% increased STR every minute ? Yes please, gimme more. If you like doing lots of damage then you should LOVE this cooldown. In PvE marco this to your ghoul for extra damage and in PvP marco it to your PvP trinket that proc's strength on use for amazing burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykotic13 View Post
    Pillar of Frost is great for both PvE and PvP. For PvE you want to pop it and then summon your ghoul. The ghoul greatly benefits from the extra strength. Same for PvP. It is on a 1 minute cooldown so you have 20% extra strength every minute for 20 seconds. 33% uptime on 20% more strength is VERY good.
    I dont recommend using the ghoul in PvP as a DPS move. The reason being is a frost DK has bad mobility and will get trained hard by the right people. Using the ghoul then death pact (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48743) is a much needed timely heal in these situations. Lichborne + DC is too
    Last edited by rated; 2011-10-03 at 05:09 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieft View Post
    Frost Strike on killing machines, not obli and completely skip rime.
    For the sake of not cluttering the thread with "just do xyz", can you please back up your statements with reasoning? Everything you said is covered in the first post already. If you're not adding new information or insight, please don't post.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    For the sake of not cluttering the thread with "just do xyz", can you please back up your statements with reasoning? Everything you said is covered in the first post already. If you're not adding new information or insight, please don't post.
    Bit hypocritical no? Can you please not clutter up this thread with stuff like "please dont clutter up this thread." If you're not adding new information or insight, please don't post.

    The guy who I quoted apparently hadn't read it so I was informing him. Also if someone who wasn't experienced with a death knight is reading this thread and looks over his post after reading the rest, it could create uncertainty as to how to spec / play and they could end up listening to the incorrect information.
    Last edited by Ieft; 2011-10-04 at 12:07 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieft View Post
    Frost Strike on killing machines, not obli and completely skip rime.
    Howling Blast (HB) procs on Rime. Necrotic Strike + HB deals more damage to aoe and refreshes Frost fever. Obliterate consumes more rune and does 75% damage lesser than a necrotic + HB. Now, think a little more.

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