1. #1

    Divine Touch weak and buggy

    Divine Touch is a talent in the Holy tree, that is supposed to instantly heal a target for 10% of Renews total periodical effect.

    1) it doesnt. when I have a normal 4 tick renew, that ticks for about 3.5k, for a total of 14k, it will heal for about 1550. it seems to double dipp from ither the renew talent or glyph. This is of course not my concern :-)
    The Problem is, when you manage to get more ticks, lets say 6 (trinket, bloodlust etc), it will still heal for only 1550, alltough the total periodical effect is 6 * 3.5k = 21k.
    ither bug, or wrong wording in tooltipp! I say bug, why shouldn't the talent profit from your haste on gear?

    2) even when that bug is fixed, I personally find the talent to weak. in its current state, it doesn't even give you an extra half tick, its just peanuts. It's not supposed to be a super instant heal, thats obvious, but in its current state it just does nothing, and are 2 nearly useless prerequisite talentpoints for the 0.5sec GCD reduction.
    I think 15% to 20% instant would be an appropriate value. (Blimey I would even take it if it cost 3 talent points for each 6%, because then you would at least notice its presance)

    kind regards
    TheTrueM4gg0t

  2. #2
    This is why I don't have that talent in my spec. Don't use renew enough anyway.

  3. #3
    got it in my spec atm, because I only use holy for raggi (10m, if druid isnt there)
    and there a 1sec renew is quite okey for spothealing / on the run healing (seeds etc)

    still i prefer talents, that are not buggy and nearly useless...

  4. #4
    It might not be amazing but I why the hell would you not get it?

    -Spirit of Redemption - Useless
    -State of Mind - Useless
    -Tome of Light - Useless for 10 mans
    -Inspiration - Useful in theory, but how often does Holy tank heal. Not to mention the other healers who tank heal should have it.

    Right now I'm skipping SoR, SoM and Inspiration and getting Rapid Renewal and Blessed Resilience, and I challenge you to convince me otherwise.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    -Inspiration - Useful in theory, but how often does Holy tank heal. Not to mention the other healers who tank heal should have it.
    Thank you kind sir, I've been meaning to take talent points out of inspiration for a while now but forgot all about it.
    My Armoury 7/7 HC Firelands

    Currently specc'd "Non-Discipline" FUCK RAID MITIGATION CD'S WE ARE HEALERS

  6. #6
    I think you can compare divine touch with improve devouring plague (or lightwell), and they only take haste rating into account for whatever breakpoint. Meaning you maybe need 12.5% haste rating without darkness or any other buff to see it going up.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    It might not be amazing but I why the hell would you not get it?

    -Spirit of Redemption - Useless
    -State of Mind - Useless
    -Tome of Light - Useless for 10 mans
    -Inspiration - Useful in theory, but how often does Holy tank heal. Not to mention the other healers who tank heal should have it.

    Right now I'm skipping SoR, SoM and Inspiration and getting Rapid Renewal and Blessed Resilience, and I challenge you to convince me otherwise.

    On some of our first heroic kills in Firelands when healers were running low on mana, I would sacrifice myself to get us through the last few percent with free healing. That option, to me, is better than an extremely weak instant heal on a spell that we barely use. Also, I do 25mans, so I get Tome of Light. I also get Blessed Resilience.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    It might not be amazing but I why the hell would you not get it?

    -Spirit of Redemption - Useless

    -State of Mind - Useless
    -Tome of Light - Useless for 10 mans
    -Inspiration - Useful in theory, but how often does Holy tank heal. Not to mention the other healers who tank heal should have it.

    Right now I'm skipping SoR, SoM and Inspiration and getting Rapid Renewal and Blessed Resilience, and I challenge you to convince me otherwise.
    You clearly don't have Mass Resurrection yet!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    It might not be amazing but I why the hell would you not get it?
    did I say you shouldn't specc it? I got it specced myself, but because of rapid renewal. anyways, the point is, it seems buggy (the wording indicates it should behave otherwise) and its weak. even if there are other useless talents. but I dont want to argue about speccs, thats not the point

    ps: you say inspiration is useless, and the tankhealers should spec that. problem: only other healing class that can specc it is shaman, who will probably not be on tankhealing duty ither. (PoH, CoH and ProM also proc it, so it will have some uptime, but not very much probably)
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2011-09-26 at 09:20 PM.

  10. #10
    On fights where I use a lot of renew (healing above on beth for example) i still see this talent doing less healing than trinket procs. I don't think doubling the heal from it would hurt that much, it still wouldn't be any more powerful than glyph of PW:S, which is imo it's equivilant heal as disc.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  11. #11
    You are clearly correct about divine touch being a weak talent. But you might not realize how strong a talent rapid renewal is.

    Renew is Holy's only spot heal with similar HPCT as PoH.

    Compare this to disc whose only 'strong' spot heals are Penance and PW:S. PW:S is an HPS loss on its own, but assuming the BT gets used for PoH, PW:S actually becomes a slight HPS gain. Penance on the other hand is only ever an HPS gain if (1) you're maintaining grace and (2) most of your PoH go to tank's group. Penance is still usually an HPS loss, making it not a very good spot heal compared to renew/rejuv/riptide

    Having rapid renewal gives you a strong spot heal. Specced renew should be worth the same HPCT as PoH, at a small (~20%) efficiency loss.
    Not taking rapid renewal feels like a mistake.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    You are clearly correct about divine touch being a weak talent. But you might not realize how strong a talent rapid renewal is.

    Renew is Holy's only spot heal with similar HPCT as PoH.

    Compare this to disc whose only 'strong' spot heals are Penance and PW:S. PW:S is an HPS loss on its own, but assuming the BT gets used for PoH, PW:S actually becomes a slight HPS gain. Penance on the other hand is only ever an HPS gain if (1) you're maintaining grace and (2) most of your PoH go to tank's group. Penance is still usually an HPS loss, making it not a very good spot heal compared to renew/rejuv/riptide

    Having rapid renewal gives you a strong spot heal. Specced renew should be worth the same HPCT as PoH, at a small (~20%) efficiency loss.
    Not taking rapid renewal feels like a mistake.
    Does that assume 0 overhealing?
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  13. #13
    It assumes equal overheal between the Prayer and Renew. It's easier to manage the overheal on a Prayer than it is on a Renew, but it's just one of those things people accept.

    Personally, I was never one for Rapid Renewal (my 50% haste in ICC was 2 second Prayers instead of Renew spam), and without that, I decided to run with Inspiration, lolTome of Light, and Blessed Resilience.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  14. #14
    ^^ Exactly what kelesti said.

    Something to add, even with rapid renewal I don't renewspam unless I'm precasting. Really I guess it comes down to how much smart healing you have in the group and how many healers you have that fill that 'spot-healing-the-raid' role. It's really very easy to choose targets for Renew that'll get you reasonably low overheal, unless you have several other healers rushing to spot heal the same people you are. The rule is, Renews go on people who need to be 'caught up' to the rest of their group, then the normal PoH/CoH stuff. If you treat it this way, Renew should still be a pretty small percentage of your overall healing, and should also have pretty low overheal.

    Think of spot heals as applying pressure that brings the raid back to even health. When the raid is in this state you keep PoH useful for longer. When the raid is even your final PoH will bring the group just barely below max health. Well placed spot heals improve your AoE efficiency. And when you don't have to lower your overall throughput to toss out a couple spot heals here and there, it can be a useful tool. Unless, like I said, someone else is competing with you for that role.

    Pretty far out, I suppose. Depends raid group to raid group.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    You clearly don't have Mass Resurrection yet!
    I had Spirit of Redemption for a while for this purpose on Raggy wipes. The main problem was I'd get out of combat with 7 seconds left on Spirit of Redemption every time. This means even if I had reforged everything into haste, it still wouldn't be quick enough.

    I only ever managed to successfully Mass Res with Spirit of Redemption about 4 times, and we wiped a great many more times.

  16. #16
    Oh yeah, don't get me wrong Zakaluka, I love Renew and I use it a fair bit. It's usually about 8-12% of my healing done over a night, and more than just on a tank. I just don't feel the need for Rapid Renewal to have it useful in that regard. Even Divine Touch is weak.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  17. #17
    Don't use renew enough anyway.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pingguo View Post
    Don't use renew enough anyway.
    very constructive...

    anyways, its bugged and weak. one of those talents that could use some love. but on the other hand, there have to be fillers, don't there...
    if there are only good talents, we will have to start having 3 holy speccs next to 2 disci speccs... so maybe its better to have useless clutter, and be able to take everything usefull into the cookiecutterbuild, with a little freedom of choice. (we can decide which stupid fillers we shoud take, yeah)

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