1. #1

    Hunter: Kill command - threat issue?

    I am leveling up my warrior, now level 88. Keeping threat is not an issue except when I meet hunters using Kill command with their pet. Any mob or boss they aim for I loose threat, becaue their pet creates extraordinary amounts. It is not a growl/taunt matter, for that would make their threat equal to mine - instead, threat from the pet is insanely higher than mine (even when the hunter produces much less dps). Taunting back is not a solution either, because 1) then I loose taunt for dealing with threats to, say, the healer and 2) the cd on Kill command is pretty short, so I keep taunting.

    Right now I solve this by simply letting the pet die. But... there should be a better solution involving me keeping agro. Advice is welcome.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    Perhaps the hunters use Misdirection on their pets. Try keeping an eye on it or get an addon which shows the target, like Big Brother.
    Cause I have never heard about just getting aggro with Kill Command only.
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  3. #3
    I had this issue when levelling my hunter, albeit from the other side. Even with growl and MD turned off, my pet would still constantly pull agro, it even got me kicked from the group a few times for "Not turning growl off". Sigh..

  4. #4
    There is simply no way KC, at level 88, can generate the same kind of threat as a protection warrior correctly using their abilities in defensive stance. Even if KC did 5x the damage of Shield Slam, as an example, Shield Slam would still generate the same amount of threat. Its easy to accidentally end up in another stance - switching specs, buggy macros, etc - and that is far more likely to be the source of your problem. Either that or you simply don't realize the pet is growling/taunting.

    Pet threat, even for BM spec, is negligible if Growl isn't on or if the mob is immune to growl, even at 'holy hell' gear levels. Sometimes in raids I see KCs for 300-400k damage, and they don't pull threat or even come close to doing so.

    Don't mean this to sound snarky, OP, just suggesting that there is another issue. Tank threat is absurd currently, and will only be more so in 5.4 (its getting increased, according to patch notes).

    A great way to increase your threat is to glyph for Heavy Repercussions and use Shield Block + Shield Slam. 150% damage Shield Slam = heaps of threat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippo89 View Post
    Perhaps the hunters use Misdirection on their pets. Try keeping an eye on it or get an addon which shows the target, like Big Brother.
    Cause I have never heard about just getting aggro with Kill Command only.
    This is a good point. Some hunters, sadly, MD to their pets either to troll tanks or to 'help' with the tanking. While the latter is admirable, its hardly necessary if you have a half-conscious healer.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-08-20 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #5
    At level 88 there gear differences can be as huge as at level 90, from yielding a ilvl 471 weapon over fully crafted gear, full blue questing gear all the way down to buyable greens - add enchants and professions in the mix and it's a tough job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    There is simply no way KC, at level 88, can generate the same kind of threat as a protection warrior correctly using their abilities in defensive stance. Even if KC did 5x the damage of Shield Slam, as an example, Shield Slam would still generate the same amount of threat.
    While his kill command only hits one target so does your shield slam, if the hunter is rather quick at picking a mob in a group and you're only using thunderclap (+ maybe the cleave from revenge on it) his pet will pull aggro eventually. But regulary that's not a real problem, thanks to cower + selfheals it should survive just fine and actually decrease the burden on you. The only time this shouldn't happen is during a boss pull but you can still taunt back for proper repositioning.

  6. #6
    Maybe those hunters are indeed misdirecting on their pet; I just found out about the glyph of md which resets that ability and allows even faster buildup of threat on a pet - something that is likely to be very handy for soloing (I dont play a hunter, just guessing).

    Nevertheless, I see the pets suddenly jumping ahead some 20k in threat when I generate a few thousand (start of a pull). That seems a lot to me, even with misdirect, considering the hunters did less dps than I managed. I still suspect kill command to do something odd. One time the hunter was level 90, but another time the same happened with a lvl 88 hunter.

    And to add, because above I see doubt if I play it smart enough:
    - I dont change stance, accidental, via macros or otherwise.
    - Growl is not the issue. Growl makes agro equal to mine, whereas this is about agro going much higher in one go. Also, I dont know if growl ends up in recount (it did not appear, kill command did), but I believe the hunters when they claim growl is off.
    - It is not a gear issue; if anything, due to my weapon I am ahead from average (main hand from archeology, upgraded and with enchants).
    - I do use shield slam and block tricks; I think my agro generation is reasonable. (as said before, I dont have agro troubles with anyone except pets from hunters).

  7. #7
    I've seen this too tanking lfr's in dps gear, and I do sickening damage (rank 1 on horridon) yet hunters pets can just get 50mill in 1 second on most things that aren't bosses, i was pretty sure it was growl, just let their pet live or die...
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  8. #8
    I don't think Growl works as a normal taunt. Every time a pet growls and I am tanking it it just seems to generate an insane amount of threat instead of just putting its threat equal to the current tank.

  9. #9
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    let the pet die who cares? its hunter responsibility to menage his pet...

  10. #10
    I had to make an account finally just to chime in here, but I'm wondering if something is bugged with pet threat at the moment. My friend was telling me today how he is leveling his paladin as a tank, and at level 77, despite doing far more damage than the warlock, the lock's wrathguard was pulling aggro off of him. I mentioned that wrathguards have a threat aura, but he said he yelled at the lock numerous times to shut it off and the lock claimed it was shut off.

    Now, I know, random groups, guy might have been an idiot, but it seemed a bit odd that the OP was having the same problem(sort of) with a pet in a lower level dungeon.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brondo View Post
    I had to make an account finally just to chime in here, but I'm wondering if something is bugged with pet threat at the moment. My friend was telling me today how he is leveling his paladin as a tank, and at level 77, despite doing far more damage than the warlock, the lock's wrathguard was pulling aggro off of him. I mentioned that wrathguards have a threat aura, but he said he yelled at the lock numerous times to shut it off and the lock claimed it was shut off.

    Now, I know, random groups, guy might have been an idiot, but it seemed a bit odd that the OP was having the same problem(sort of) with a pet in a lower level dungeon.
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    Hmm. This reminds me of the following:
    We did Heroic Qon on Monday. Warlock pet did not pull aggro on the trash before, but took aggro off the boss within seconds after the pull.
    Best thing about it: the warlock had Soul Link active, so when the pet died, he also died :-D.
    He said he was sure threat aura wasn't active so it was strange. And funny.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    I don't think Growl works as a normal taunt. Every time a pet growls and I am tanking it it just seems to generate an insane amount of threat instead of just putting its threat equal to the current tank.
    This is correct. Pet growl does NOT taunt. It instead generates a ridiculously huge amount of agro. The hunter pets in your group are growling. Tell them to turn off pet taunt/growl and you won't have the issue anymore. Kill Command does not generate high agro.

  13. #13
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    This is correct. Pet growl does NOT taunt. It instead generates a ridiculously huge amount of agro. The hunter pets in your group are growling. Tell them to turn off pet taunt/growl and you won't have the issue anymore. Kill Command does not generate high agro.
    One should still see the Growl-debuff on the target for a few seconds, taunting or not.
    So the OP should also keep an eye on the debuffs.
    Last edited by Pippo89; 2013-08-21 at 11:16 AM. Reason: removed a sentence
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  14. #14
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    Growl isn't a taunt. It actually is just a normal "ability" that gives threat. That's the only effect it does. So if it's used every time it's off CD it'll give x amount of threat every time.

    At least fairly sure that is how it works.

  15. #15
    Since MoP it's a "real" taunt and
    1) fixates the mob to your pet for the duration (it's a three seconds debuff after all, you should be able to see it...)
    2) it also brings the pets aggro to the same level as the current aggro holder similar to all other taunts mechanics
    3) and adds a flat amount of additional threat

  16. #16
    Well, the flat amount of threat it adds is absurd. It is like a hundred times my threat even if I have been tanking for a while.

  17. #17
    Yep, just watch omen when threat goes to the pet. Typically what growl does is, the pet taunts, the threat goes equal (as with a normal taunt), but then ~1 second later, it rockets up by an insane amount for reasons that have never really been explained (by Blizzard). On omen, you'll see it as... a bunch of standard threat bars, all relatively close in size, and then all of them are just eclipsed by the bar with the pet's name, since they are sized based relative to each other, so all the other bars become a sliver. If that happens, it's growl, 100%. Pretty much nothing else in the entire game generates threat like that. That's why if you were to say, enter a dungeon but not turn off growl until it was cast the first time, the tank will pretty much never get the taunted target back until the pet dies or he directly taunts it back. If not for the massive extra threat, it's likely most tanks would just pull it right back once the "fixate" effect of the taunt wore off.
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